More precise throttle transitions.
05-12-2012, 10:45 PM
#1
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More precise throttle transitions.
Something Andy recently found is a better way to configure the on/off throttle transitions. Non select 420 ecus only.
Originally the wires are
red, black, black, black, purple, white, pink, gray
You'll change them to
red, black, black, black, pink, grey, white, violet.
You'll change the 8 pin connector in a different order. Simply press the stops with a screw driver and pull the cables out and put them in the new order.
Original
Pull off the 4 wires you'll change.
Before you plug them in push the locks back out (the little metal tabs)
Then plug them back in in the order above.
All done. Plug back into the ecu.
This is the entire post from Andy, some of it is non relevant...
Originally the wires are
red, black, black, black, purple, white, pink, gray
You'll change them to
red, black, black, black, pink, grey, white, violet.
You'll change the 8 pin connector in a different order. Simply press the stops with a screw driver and pull the cables out and put them in the new order.
Original
Pull off the 4 wires you'll change.
Before you plug them in push the locks back out (the little metal tabs)
Then plug them back in in the order above.
All done. Plug back into the ecu.
This is the entire post from Andy, some of it is non relevant...
Originally Posted by Andy
Weird.
To be honest I've never had bad fuel cause these symptoms.
At Time Attack last year, a few engines died, and the tuners blamed bad fuel for that. The said that it was because they got the E85 from the pump instead of in drums from Sucragen (over here it mostly comes from sugar, not corn). But they weren't logging lambda values or knocking so it's hard to tell. It's easy to say it's bad fuel because it's difficult to immediately disprove.
I'm really struggling to come up with a mechanism as to how bad fuel would cause the problem. It seems to be an ignition type problem - we are injecting the right milliseconds but the AFR reading is really lean. So if the fuel is really hard to ignite for some reason then that would explain why it's worse when you get on load. But it doesn't explain the RPM dependency.
The only thing I can think of that would explain the RPM dependency is intake resonances causing fuel to condense or something like that, but I don't see why this would be different with bad fuel vs good fuel.
Can you try to change something for me? I recently had a look at an NB and discovered that the injection phasing isn't optimal on the plugin board. So can you please pop the 4 injector wires (white, violet, grey, pink) out of the 8 pin connector that goes to the ECU, and put them back in the following order:
Red (unchanged)
Black (unchanged)
Black (unchanged)
Black (unchanged)
Pink
Grey
White
Violet
I did this on a factory turbo (your Mazdaspeed Miata, our "SE") and it really helped with throttle transitions. So it should help with your throttle transitions which have always been a bit of a problem, but if it is bad fuel standoff related then this should only help!
Please let me know anything else you discover!
To be honest I've never had bad fuel cause these symptoms.
At Time Attack last year, a few engines died, and the tuners blamed bad fuel for that. The said that it was because they got the E85 from the pump instead of in drums from Sucragen (over here it mostly comes from sugar, not corn). But they weren't logging lambda values or knocking so it's hard to tell. It's easy to say it's bad fuel because it's difficult to immediately disprove.
I'm really struggling to come up with a mechanism as to how bad fuel would cause the problem. It seems to be an ignition type problem - we are injecting the right milliseconds but the AFR reading is really lean. So if the fuel is really hard to ignite for some reason then that would explain why it's worse when you get on load. But it doesn't explain the RPM dependency.
The only thing I can think of that would explain the RPM dependency is intake resonances causing fuel to condense or something like that, but I don't see why this would be different with bad fuel vs good fuel.
Can you try to change something for me? I recently had a look at an NB and discovered that the injection phasing isn't optimal on the plugin board. So can you please pop the 4 injector wires (white, violet, grey, pink) out of the 8 pin connector that goes to the ECU, and put them back in the following order:
Red (unchanged)
Black (unchanged)
Black (unchanged)
Black (unchanged)
Pink
Grey
White
Violet
I did this on a factory turbo (your Mazdaspeed Miata, our "SE") and it really helped with throttle transitions. So it should help with your throttle transitions which have always been a bit of a problem, but if it is bad fuel standoff related then this should only help!
Please let me know anything else you discover!
Last edited by triple88a; 05-12-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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05-13-2012, 04:31 AM
#4
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Argh! I have been trying to get rid of that problem since Day one. I thoght I was shocking the MAP sensor or something as it got worse with high boost and have been running max map filtering in v10 with minor improvments. Cant wait to try this.
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05-15-2012, 01:53 AM
#7
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Got some more play time today with the miata...
Switched to a 250 cell map... as well but the wire switch... DO IT. I'd say it's a must for ALL adaptronic users (420 non select of course).
Switched to a 250 cell map... as well but the wire switch... DO IT. I'd say it's a must for ALL adaptronic users (420 non select of course).
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05-15-2012, 10:49 PM
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To your question ^
Originally Posted by Andy
Yes, it's only for those ones with the e420c.
The Select one is closer but I'll make up a firmware change for those because it's only out by one (but in the correct order, just off by 1).
The Select one is closer but I'll make up a firmware change for those because it's only out by one (but in the correct order, just off by 1).
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05-16-2012, 12:20 PM
#14
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Purple = Injector 1
White = Injector 2
Pink = Injector 3
Grey = Injector 4
So it's changing the injector wiring so that when the adaptronic fires injector 1, really it's firing 3... I'd have thought if it was firing the wrong injector at the wrong time it'd never run properly...
(Hello BTW, noob alert, 1st post after being registered for 6 years
)
White = Injector 2
Pink = Injector 3
Grey = Injector 4
So it's changing the injector wiring so that when the adaptronic fires injector 1, really it's firing 3... I'd have thought if it was firing the wrong injector at the wrong time it'd never run properly...
(Hello BTW, noob alert, 1st post after being registered for 6 years
)
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05-16-2012, 02:26 PM
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It looks like it, yep. It may be a wiring loom issue with the plug and play looms they supply, I've asked on the adaptronic forum if it applies to any other models than the NB using their pre-built looms.
There's only 4 wires changed, the other 4 are left alone in the 8 pin plug.
There's only 4 wires changed, the other 4 are left alone in the 8 pin plug.
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05-16-2012, 09:54 PM
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^
Do you have the link to the forum thread? I can't find the thread on the adaptronic.com.au forums.
EDIT: Ooops, dgmorr beat me to it.
How many degrees out of phase are each of the injectors firing? I wonder if it's a change to optimize the end of injection timing: http://adaptronic.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=5018.0
Do you have the link to the forum thread? I can't find the thread on the adaptronic.com.au forums.
EDIT: Ooops, dgmorr beat me to it.
How many degrees out of phase are each of the injectors firing? I wonder if it's a change to optimize the end of injection timing: http://adaptronic.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=5018.0
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