BEGi Bell Engineering Group's terrible intake manifold
12-25-2015, 08:26 AM
#61
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Just cus the vendor offers to fix the issues doesn't make it all better. Yes custom custom custom blah blah but still, the damn part should like, fit and not be janky and crappy.
It costs time and effort and frikken emotional sadness when you receive a crappily built part. Is that hard to understand? For $700 I'd expect the intake to like, be decent, not lame.
That said, year after year BEGI your quality control and execution is crap. Perhaps the issue is that you represent your products as off the shelf excellent, plug em right in. Commonly that's not the case. Yes I get that that in essence, you're a one off shop. That however is not an excuse for shipping crap parts and representing them as bingo.
A one off shop is fine IF you market yourself as such. I understand that back in the dawn of time when you split from FM you had to market yourself as plug and play to compete and exist. Well, after years of wackass fabrication and fitament, that clearly isn't how you are capable of executing. And that's ok.
That is ok. IF you set customer expectations accordingly. That all parts may not be plug and play. Because they're all custom and you have some pillhead UT dropout running your TIG. Set the expectation that parts may need to be sent back repeatedly for months to make em right.
That would be better than expecting plug and play and it would also keep you out of situations like having to bend over and spread wide and deep and wow two fists deep because of customers like NwarR who were expecting the stupid part to fit when it comes out of the UPS box. I'm sure NwarR is gonna give you lame specs and then dyno the car and cry cus the power band is all 10,000 RPM+.
Am only writing this cus I actually hope your business can be improved. Think you have a fabrication issue and more importantly a marketing and customer messaging issue.
also u need more
5
12-25-2015, 03:35 PM
#62
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Am I the only one that was satisfied with my product? It took a bit long to make, but that is to be expected from a company that actually makes these to order. I had no fitment issues, welds were great, works as advertised. It wasn't a hard part to make, just a downpipe, but I've had no issues out of it.
0
12-25-2015, 04:33 PM
#63
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Am I the only one that was satisfied with my product? It took a bit long to make, but that is to be expected from a company that actually makes these to order. I had no fitment issues, welds were great, works as advertised. It wasn't a hard part to make, just a downpipe, but I've had no issues out of it.
That is nice for you. The thing is that their overall quality is very inconsistent.
0
12-25-2015, 04:42 PM
#64
Just cus the vendor offers to fix the issues doesn't make it all better. Yes custom custom custom blah blah but still, the damn part should like, fit and not be janky and crappy.
It costs time and effort and frikken emotional sadness when you receive a crappily built part. Is that hard to understand? For $700 I'd expect the intake to like, be decent, not lame.
That said, year after year BEGI your quality control and execution is crap. Perhaps the issue is that you represent your products as off the shelf excellent, plug em right in. Commonly that's not the case. Yes I get that that in essence, you're a one off shop. That however is not an excuse for shipping crap parts and representing them as bingo.
A one off shop is fine IF you market yourself as such. I understand that back in the dawn of time when you split from FM you had to market yourself as plug and play to compete and exist. Well, after years of wackass fabrication and fitament, that clearly isn't how you are capable of executing. And that's ok.
That is ok. IF you set customer expectations accordingly. That all parts may not be plug and play. Because they're all custom and you have some pillhead UT dropout running your TIG. Set the expectation that parts may need to be sent back repeatedly for months to make em right.
That would be better than expecting plug and play and it would also keep you out of situations like having to bend over and spread wide and deep and wow two fists deep because of customers like NwarR who were expecting the stupid part to fit when it comes out of the UPS box. I'm sure NwarR is gonna give you lame specs and then dyno the car and cry cus the power band is all 10,000 RPM+.
Am only writing this cus I actually hope your business can be improved. Think you have a fabrication issue and more importantly a marketing and customer messaging issue.
also u need more
It costs time and effort and frikken emotional sadness when you receive a crappily built part. Is that hard to understand? For $700 I'd expect the intake to like, be decent, not lame.
That said, year after year BEGI your quality control and execution is crap. Perhaps the issue is that you represent your products as off the shelf excellent, plug em right in. Commonly that's not the case. Yes I get that that in essence, you're a one off shop. That however is not an excuse for shipping crap parts and representing them as bingo.
A one off shop is fine IF you market yourself as such. I understand that back in the dawn of time when you split from FM you had to market yourself as plug and play to compete and exist. Well, after years of wackass fabrication and fitament, that clearly isn't how you are capable of executing. And that's ok.
That is ok. IF you set customer expectations accordingly. That all parts may not be plug and play. Because they're all custom and you have some pillhead UT dropout running your TIG. Set the expectation that parts may need to be sent back repeatedly for months to make em right.
That would be better than expecting plug and play and it would also keep you out of situations like having to bend over and spread wide and deep and wow two fists deep because of customers like NwarR who were expecting the stupid part to fit when it comes out of the UPS box. I'm sure NwarR is gonna give you lame specs and then dyno the car and cry cus the power band is all 10,000 RPM+.
Am only writing this cus I actually hope your business can be improved. Think you have a fabrication issue and more importantly a marketing and customer messaging issue.
also u need more
IT'S A CHRISTMAS MIRACLE!!
Seriously. This is exactly on point.
BOTTOM LINE: Design/Engineering is great for the most part, execution and quality control are TERRIBLE. This has been re-confirmed like 5 billion times over the years.
2
12-26-2015, 02:17 AM
#65
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^
I had to check the post author three times to verify that it was indeed Fae. It was articulate, to the point, made sense, and out of (choose 3: *****, ***, your mom), it had only one!
I had to check the post author three times to verify that it was indeed Fae. It was articulate, to the point, made sense, and out of (choose 3: *****, ***, your mom), it had only one!
0
12-26-2015, 10:04 AM
#66
Former Vendor
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Nwar,
Thanks for accepting the offer. I remain at your schedule.
If I may, I'd like to suggest a note or two here to various respondents.
Jokes about Tequila have been carried a bit far. I am not particularly fond of the stuff, and booze is not allowed in my building. Implying I am boracho on the job is a bit of a stretch.
On review of this thread, my first statement was "I blew this one." If that was a denial, I'll clearly work on my English.
I am aware of many problems, but I hope quality of design and craftsmanship are not among them.
Corky
Thanks for accepting the offer. I remain at your schedule.
If I may, I'd like to suggest a note or two here to various respondents.
Jokes about Tequila have been carried a bit far. I am not particularly fond of the stuff, and booze is not allowed in my building. Implying I am boracho on the job is a bit of a stretch.
On review of this thread, my first statement was "I blew this one." If that was a denial, I'll clearly work on my English.
I am aware of many problems, but I hope quality of design and craftsmanship are not among them.
Corky
-2
12-26-2015, 12:43 PM
#68
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Indeed your first statement was "I blew this one" Followed up with "admit you're imperfect, and I'll go ahead and make this right."
Your english is fine, and so is your engineering. It's your business methods that are lacking.
Your english is fine, and so is your engineering. It's your business methods that are lacking.
3
12-26-2015, 05:32 PM
#69
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I am sure your theory is great- I read your book and for all my ignorant self knows, you could have made it all up. But I don't think that's the case.
A key part of business is setting customer expectations. Just set em right that all these custom parts may take some back and forth to get right and you'll always make it right.
Either that or spend a lot more time in the fabrication and QA process to make sure EVERY SINGLE custom part that goes out the door actually plugs up and was manufactured properly for that specific kind of miata.
If um NwAR was told "we'll do our best but what you ship may have some issues and we will address em" he probably wouldn't have come to the Internet, Savior and Refuge of the Aggrieved.
1
12-31-2015, 12:28 AM
#74
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also flat **** is best at 100% rpm you're pretty much at stock power so like, the car wont even notice
if youre really xool then youll set up a trigger in uer map to run negative timing when clutch switch is in that way ur flat **** can pattotie and spool ur bitch
let's see if shuiend got my ride n pieces yet
0
12-31-2015, 01:06 AM
#75
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stfu go ride dicks i cant believ you didnt get double ceramic for ur clutch
also flat **** is best at 100% rpm you're pretty much at stock power so like, the car wont even notice
if youre really xool then youll set up a trigger in uer map to run negative timing when clutch switch is in that way ur flat **** can pattotie and spool ur bitch
let's see if shuiend got my ride n pieces yet
also flat **** is best at 100% rpm you're pretty much at stock power so like, the car wont even notice
if youre really xool then youll set up a trigger in uer map to run negative timing when clutch switch is in that way ur flat **** can pattotie and spool ur bitch
let's see if shuiend got my ride n pieces yet
I'll get ceramics for the T5. The organic will hold anything the 6 speed will.
I break **** even when it's not supposed to break. I'm gonna be nice to this 6 speed. Yeah I'm only making 2x stock hp, it feels like a bitchmobile.
Pretty sure timing drops to -3 degrees to spool my turbo. But its a baby shitty turbo. I'll send a lotore more fireballs through abholset they like it hot. It patoies real nice as is. It's just slow
Once traction control gets hooked up I'll play in the wet more. I'm a big baby, and have already crashed my **** twice.
0
01-14-2016, 03:53 PM
#76
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UPDATE:
I gave BEGi an out. It consisted of a one for one trade. A new corrected intake manifold for the mess they sent me. They accepted but assumed that I would send them the manifold I had so the they could fix it and send it back, the same one, to me. Sure they did say that they would never do such a thing.. but my trust is not something they have since I got their version of a Frankenstein "intake replacement". It needed much more than just a correct flange. The whole plenum had to be realigned and straightened.
Corky wanted multiple design specs, runner lengths, plenum shape changes and measurements to make a new manifold. So I sent BEGi a sketch of something that would meet those drastic changes. Stephanie insisted that the only changes would be the flange and an adjustment of an eighth here or there. It didn't seem that they were on the same page. That was frustrating as hell communicating to a two headed beast. I saw logic in that I shouldn't expect to much from them on the new manifold, so I agreed to only needed corrections which were the flange and the realignment of the plenum. But I would not send them the messed up manifold until I received a new manifold.
So now they refuse. They will not make a new manifold without getting the old one back. This was curious.. couldn't they make a good one without my bad one? Seems that each manifold they is 'custom'. They can't duplicate or in this case create a quality manifold that works. I asked about a jig. Maybe they had or were using a specific jig to create the precision at which to assemble each manifold. So that each of those manifolds are getting the same level of attention. In fact, if there needed to be changes to enhance quality a simple solution would to be make changes to the jig. And each jig would be in spec to certain dimensions of a model year Miata. Make sense?
Anyway, I couldn't hold be my frustration any long and sent a final email expressing my disgust with BEGi.
"BEGi,
Then re-think your business production strategy because it is absolutely dismal. You cost me money, time, un-needed stress, complete lost of faith in American businesses and practices. It is shameful the way you have screwed something up and flail around pointing out your insufficient abilities at someone else's expense. Now that, is going of on a straight and truthful and photographic factual tangent.
If you can't reproduce a quality product, what use do I have for you? No thank you for your business."
Advice; Do not speak with them on the phone they may deny everything you discussed with them. Emails only so that you have hard proof of communication. This has help exposing their nature on the forum. Also in hindsight I would not have paid in full. Negotiate a pay half now, pay the balance once you get the product and checked it. Because they don't really check it.. wrong flange is too easy to see.
Sorry if I offended anyone. I know it is hard to hear bad things about someone or something you admire. Good news though, soon there will be a crappy BEGi intake manifold for sale on eBay for NB Miata 1999-2005. I have learned that there is a positive to all our woes.. like it's a perfect time to think of an engine swap.
I gave BEGi an out. It consisted of a one for one trade. A new corrected intake manifold for the mess they sent me. They accepted but assumed that I would send them the manifold I had so the they could fix it and send it back, the same one, to me. Sure they did say that they would never do such a thing.. but my trust is not something they have since I got their version of a Frankenstein "intake replacement". It needed much more than just a correct flange. The whole plenum had to be realigned and straightened.
Corky wanted multiple design specs, runner lengths, plenum shape changes and measurements to make a new manifold. So I sent BEGi a sketch of something that would meet those drastic changes. Stephanie insisted that the only changes would be the flange and an adjustment of an eighth here or there. It didn't seem that they were on the same page. That was frustrating as hell communicating to a two headed beast. I saw logic in that I shouldn't expect to much from them on the new manifold, so I agreed to only needed corrections which were the flange and the realignment of the plenum. But I would not send them the messed up manifold until I received a new manifold.
So now they refuse. They will not make a new manifold without getting the old one back. This was curious.. couldn't they make a good one without my bad one? Seems that each manifold they is 'custom'. They can't duplicate or in this case create a quality manifold that works. I asked about a jig. Maybe they had or were using a specific jig to create the precision at which to assemble each manifold. So that each of those manifolds are getting the same level of attention. In fact, if there needed to be changes to enhance quality a simple solution would to be make changes to the jig. And each jig would be in spec to certain dimensions of a model year Miata. Make sense?
Anyway, I couldn't hold be my frustration any long and sent a final email expressing my disgust with BEGi.
"BEGi,
Then re-think your business production strategy because it is absolutely dismal. You cost me money, time, un-needed stress, complete lost of faith in American businesses and practices. It is shameful the way you have screwed something up and flail around pointing out your insufficient abilities at someone else's expense. Now that, is going of on a straight and truthful and photographic factual tangent.
If you can't reproduce a quality product, what use do I have for you? No thank you for your business."
Advice; Do not speak with them on the phone they may deny everything you discussed with them. Emails only so that you have hard proof of communication. This has help exposing their nature on the forum. Also in hindsight I would not have paid in full. Negotiate a pay half now, pay the balance once you get the product and checked it. Because they don't really check it.. wrong flange is too easy to see.
Sorry if I offended anyone. I know it is hard to hear bad things about someone or something you admire. Good news though, soon there will be a crappy BEGi intake manifold for sale on eBay for NB Miata 1999-2005. I have learned that there is a positive to all our woes.. like it's a perfect time to think of an engine swap.
0
01-15-2016, 04:42 AM
#78
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I can see both sides of the whole "I wont send mine back until you send my new one" and their "I wont send your new one until we get the old one"
They have no guarantee you will return the old one and you have no guarantee the new one will be to your satisfaction.
They have no guarantee you will return the old one and you have no guarantee the new one will be to your satisfaction.
1
01-15-2016, 07:43 AM
#79
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They will not make a new manifold without getting the old one back. This was curious.. couldn't they make a good one without my bad one? Seems that each manifold they is 'custom'. They can't duplicate or in this case create a quality manifold that works. I asked about a jig. Maybe they had or were using a specific jig to create the precision at which to assemble each manifold. So that each of those manifolds are getting the same level of attention. In fact, if there needed to be changes to enhance quality a simple solution would to be make changes to the jig. And each jig would be in spec to certain dimensions of a model year Miata. Make sense?
This is normal stuff for exceptionally low volume, low demand, and well priced parts.
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