Intake Manifold Final Flow Stages
12-14-2008, 08:42 PM
#21
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Find a BP6D head to sacrifice and you can resell it. I understand the advantages, but its what I had laying around. Maybe I made it over dramatic about how much the redesign would actually take me to do... I setup the whole manifold in a linking system in SolidWorks. That means I can change a couple of parameter and the manifold automatically adopts to another bolt pattern, port angle, and profile. Then I re-run a couple of experiments, do a couple of prototypes and presto. Version for the BP6D, its actually much less expensive to design a new manifold then purchasing an 01 up engine, I've done the research, its just a matter of application.
I have incredibly cheap manufacturing sources here in the U.S. Ontop of that new product setup is pretty much ameliorated into the cost of the part from the manufacturer. Its not going to hurt to have more manifolds.
I have incredibly cheap manufacturing sources here in the U.S. Ontop of that new product setup is pretty much ameliorated into the cost of the part from the manufacturer. Its not going to hurt to have more manifolds.
Last edited by TravisR; 12-14-2008 at 08:53 PM.
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12-14-2008, 09:06 PM
#22
BP6D and BP4W are the same as far as the manifold goes. Same flange, same ports, same exhaust side. Just the VVT mech and a tad more lift. Speculation is that maybe valves or springs in the BP4W head in the MSM are a different grade material but the same dimensionally. So a BP4W manifold is a BP6D manifold. I have a chopped up bare BP4W head I can send you. One port hacked open to see where the roof breaks through, otherwise intact.
Only one new VVT head and that's going onto a car in the next few weeks. When that happens, I'lll have a fresh BP4W I can lend you but like I said, that several weeks away.
Only one new VVT head and that's going onto a car in the next few weeks. When that happens, I'lll have a fresh BP4W I can lend you but like I said, that several weeks away.
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12-14-2008, 09:13 PM
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If you send me the chopped one I can map the port, and do the flow analysis to build the runners. Then when you send me the fresh un-hacked head I can CMM the bolt pattern and do the rest. With the bore spacing being the same, the the port spacing should also be the same, just a different size. So I can have everything built besides that. If you need paper work, or an agreement I can patch it through.
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12-15-2008, 05:47 PM
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I have a spare BP4W and BP6D if you need them. The 4W is here at my house, the 6D I'd need to pick up from my friend's house. They are both, good, complete heads. I have corresponding intake manifolds too if you had some reason for them.
Just hook it up on the mani and either/both are yours to use.
Incidentally, Mr Emilio's hacked head came from me too.
Just hook it up on the mani and either/both are yours to use.
Incidentally, Mr Emilio's hacked head came from me too.
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12-16-2008, 05:32 PM
#28
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No problem. They're both in storage until I have the desire/resources/engine management to deal with them. I am planning to bring the 4W to the machine shop in the next month or two though for a p&p, then swap out the one on my car.
Sorry my block is fully assembled.
Sorry my block is fully assembled.
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12-30-2008, 12:13 PM
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I used to make a manifold EXACTLY like that for the ford focus. That is absolutely ridiculous how similar they are. They were far to expensive to make, and the power wasn't there. Only 4-5 percent. For that motor though it was the only way to go you couldn't mount an assemetrical unit because it was FWD and a ton of electrical components were right in the way. It only gave a gain of about 5% ontop, it wasn't that great of a design in hindsight(in the infancy of my engineering work). I wonder who makes this, and if they did a better job then I did? I still have some parts around for it, some runners, even a CNC o-ring flange. I'll have to dig it up.
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12-30-2008, 12:15 PM
#32
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I've been working more on the intake into the runner. I actaully found a trumpet I think that might add another 2-3% and another 5000% in marketing. I was really surprised, I'm going to flow bench it as soon as I can to verify the theoretical. It looks sick, the cosworth type of ugly runner entry. Their design for the duratec inspired me to explore why they were doing what they were doing, and I'm glad I did.
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12-30-2008, 07:14 PM
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I used to make a manifold EXACTLY like that for the ford focus. That is absolutely ridiculous how similar they are. They were far to expensive to make, and the power wasn't there. Only 4-5 percent. For that motor though it was the only way to go you couldn't mount an assemetrical unit because it was FWD and a ton of electrical components were right in the way. It only gave a gain of about 5% ontop, it wasn't that great of a design in hindsight(in the infancy of my engineering work). I wonder who makes this, and if they did a better job then I did? I still have some parts around for it, some runners, even a CNC o-ring flange. I'll have to dig it up.
fmowry posted a link.
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12-30-2008, 07:26 PM
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I'm going to make an electronic box that automatically redirects the injector signal at a specified point. Maybe 4000 & and a specified open throttle the box switches the injector pulses to the pre-throttle location.(This could be ECU triggered or self triggered) This way they are still sequential, but you only use one set at a time. You would have to change your fuel map right there using some CPU logic to not flood the motor. I know the adaptronic has the provisions to do it, but some CPU's that don't have multiple maps might have problems using that feature of the setup because if you just use a huge change in the fuel map you'll run lean for those load cells because of interpolation upto the switch point.
What I had in mind was to recommend people used the ULEV 8lb injectors from a new mazda 6, or something along those lines, and then with the outboard injectors they run whatever their engine requires. This could help smooth out some of the problems with running the ITB's along with really large injectors.
Travis
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12-30-2008, 07:40 PM
#38
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I don't like those runner conversions from round to oval in what looks like a half inch, thats not going to work well. I've thought and thought about adjustable runners, but there just isn't any great way to do it I don't think. Its great for setup and testing, but you can't taper the ports if you use adjustable runners. I'm interested to see what it does on the dyno anyways. It looks like the nightmare I was facing making a manifold out of a CNC machine. Its too much time and material, when you can just use a fiber reinforced plastic and do it for cheaper, with unrestricted geometry, and at a lighter weight.
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