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Old 10-05-2015, 09:34 PM   #4281
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Reliability is not good with VGT turbos on gasoline engines. IIRC, they're really designed for diesels, which have significantly lower EGTs due to the higher expansion ratio.

--Ian
So e85?
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:35 PM   #4282
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Still debating on splitter mounting too. Sean's (from singular) looks awesome, but with my driving style I like the easy off method with cables.

So many decisions.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:42 PM   #4283
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So e85?
E85 isn't going to help much. Yes, you can advance the timing so that you don't have stupidly-high EGTs, but it's not enough. With straight 100 in my car, I can run MBT at 15 psi, and I'm still turning on the 1600F warning light on my EGT gauge about halfway down the straight.

18:1 on a diesel extracts more energy from the exhaust gasses so they come out at a lower temperature.

--Ian
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:44 PM   #4284
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Very true, maybe it will forever be a pipe dream. I need to do more research. I think I'm set on finding a ball bearing turbo. I want dat quick response. And spin down noises.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:47 PM   #4285
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What's your budget? 2560s are pretty good bang-for-the-buck.

--Ian
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:51 PM   #4286
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Very cheap. Sub $500. While an EFR would be cool, there are so many better things I could do with that money. I have a feeling I'll be stuck with JB turbos. I like the rebuildability of them too.

Any OEM BB turbos worth mentioning? Any recent diesel BB turbos without VGT?
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:57 PM   #4287
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Very cheap. Sub $500. While an EFR would be cool, there are so many better things I could do with that money. I have a feeling I'll be stuck with JB turbos. I like the rebuildability of them too.

Any OEM BB turbos worth mentioning? Any recent diesel BB turbos without VGT?
I ran a new garrett GT3271 for 5 years, it's a journal bearing turbo. Bought it second hand new here for 350 shipped. I turned it up to 28 PSI/choke flow and after 2 years I killed the 270* steel thrust bearings and the compressor wheel hit the housing. Rebuilt it made enough boost on the first pull to break a piston in half, though it was leaking some oil out the turbine.

I'm a fan of journal bearing turbos, they tough and not pricey. If I were building a turbo miata right now, I' might would try an ebay BB turbo if they're anything as cheap as the ebay journal bearings. I remember a long time ago people here had the idea of just buy two ebay turbos and have a spare in case one does fail. I mean, several years ago ebay turbos were like 200 bucks, shipped! I literally paid 10x that for an EFR. Looking back, that seems crazy.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:02 PM   #4288
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Right? I feel like everyone hated on Ebay turbos until Brain tried one. Might as well say fuckit and try one. Wonder if there are any in the size I want.

Built VVT motor, stock head, short runner manifold, 3 (maybe 3.5" if I'm feeling baller) exhaust.

350whp capable

baller spool.

Now to find the right size.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:06 PM   #4289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Right? I feel like everyone hated on Ebay turbos until Brain tried one. Might as well say fuckit and try one. Wonder if there are any in the size I want.

Built VVT motor, stock head, short runner manifold, 3 (maybe 3.5" if I'm feeling baller) exhaust.

350whp capable

baller spool.

Now to find the right size.
Do it, I mean **** if they're still as cheap as they used to be so what, if it does die or suck it's not like it's a huge loss. And from what I remember they're actually pretty good.

What I find funny is all the post about baller spool EFRs I've see here, most of them still show full spool/torque at 4,500 just like my old journal bearing setup. I think that crap is overrated myself. Just buy a turbo big enough for your power goals without hitting choke flow and enjoy.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:07 PM   #4290
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Its the response that the EFR is baller about. Vlad posted something like 160ms from vacuum to 8psi. Thats the blink of an eye.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:26 PM   #4291
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Faster spool than a Holset? | DSMtuners

And again I'm back on the holset train. When will it ever end.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/hx30-jpg.92009/
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:27 PM   #4292
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Do it, I mean **** if they're still as cheap as they used to be so what, if it does die or suck it's not like it's a huge loss. And from what I remember they're actually pretty good.
eBay turbos are not nearly as cheap as they used to be the spool on them still sucks. I totally agree a budget journal bearing 2560 or 2554 is the way to go and still have a decent set up in the end.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:28 PM   #4293
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Its the response that the EFR is baller about. Vlad posted something like 160ms from vacuum to 8psi. Thats the blink of an eye.
I have a whipple, I know all about response.

I don't remember his test, but if you're running 20 PSI boost, posting the response from vacuum to 8 PSI is misleading since that's not target. EFR or not, all turbos we run have some lag at lower RPMs, but at higher RPMs they damn near instant. My GT3271 at 5K, if you floored it, it felt like it spooled as fast as I could put my foot down. Pretty much any turbo you put on a miata will do the same. 5th gear at 2K rpm pulls is highly misleading/crappy way to test boost response since nobody in their mind actually says " I wanna go fast, let me throw it in 5th at 35mph and floor it".

Basically I think a lot of that crap is overrated. Buy an ebay turbo big enough for your power goals. Focus on a good manifold, good exhaust and good boost control (like external gate for example) to get the response and power you're looking for.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:32 PM   #4294
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How much bigger is a 2554/2560 than my current TD04.

18psi posted a chart that had all the TD04 specs. Mine is a 15g from a volvo.

Manifold will be a low mount with external wastegate. 1.25" ID piping.

I find that even at 4k rpm right now, I have to wait a few to get to full boost. I should go take a log at some point.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:42 PM   #4295
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I completely disagree. Not all turbos are the same. Not even close. Ebay turbos are cool when you're a brokenweiner college student building a street car one hitter quitter. Real track cars have no business with that junk. the 54 is about same, the 60 is a bit closer to vf39.
After your turbos start failing every week, and you go through a couple chinachargers and realize you're within a few hundo of an EFR and still have a garbage setup, you start to wonder

I look at how much money is wasted every month by the "cheap guys" that scoff at running a proper $1000-2000 turbo, and it just makes me laugh. In the end the amount out of pocket is within hundreds, and some end up with solid cars, and others with failing heaps of junk.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:44 PM   #4296
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Which is why I'm considering a holset. They have a reputation for taking a beating, and then some. If I can find one small enough.

I want bigger than I have. I'll consider a 2560.

I've seen an hx30 compared to a 2871 but with better spool, and I like the way Eds car makes power. (still need to drive it though).
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:49 PM   #4297
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remind me again why you're even wasting forum bandwidth talking about a piece of poo 1.fail?

why not focus on building that vvt engine and keep the current turd as is?

that's what i'd do. I'd just build a no-nonsense 1.8 setup. weld up the current bird poo header and don't waste any more effort on this setup

sometimes polishing a turd isn't worth the buffing pad
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:50 PM   #4298
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Which is why I'm considering a holset. They have a reputation for taking a beating, and then some. If I can find one small enough.

I want bigger than I have. I'll consider a 2560.

I've seen an hx30 compared to a 2871 but with better spool, and I like the way Eds car makes power. (still need to drive it though).
I don't think there is a Holset out there that is small enough for a Miata engine. They used to be popular, and did well, in the 240sx community with the giant 2.4 they had. If you want bigger I'd do a 2560, with some good boost control they spool pretty well and breath enough to easily make mid 200's. I am still a big fan of the response of a cheap SR20 2554 turbo.

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remind me again why you're even wasting forum bandwidth talking about a piece of poo 1.fail?

why not focus on building that vvt engine and keep the current turd as is?
LOL I didn't see that you were still on a 1.6 (nothing wrong with that), just stick with your existing set up or do a proper 2554 and engine a fun responsive set up. Otherwise, save $$$ and go VVT 1.8 with a bigger turbo.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:52 PM   #4299
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but he's already running basically a sr 2554 setup

....and here's what I challenge you to aidan: build this setup you're dreaming of, then add up all the cost. then compare to a "proven" setup and see how much cheaper it was. then realize why our "community" is so "cookie cutter"
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:54 PM   #4300
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Guise. This is 1.8 turbo discussion. Not 1.6 turbo.
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