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Old 12-09-2015, 03:38 PM   #5421
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BW has the 200sx listed as a 220-580hp turbo. A .83 twin scroll A/R is pretty damn small for a turbo that big.

EFR 7670 is listed as a 320-650hp turbo.

http://www.turbos.borgwarner.com/fil...bo_Catalog.pdf
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Old 12-09-2015, 03:39 PM   #5422
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I mean 600 would be cool...There's also a smaller 7070 that will flow a bit less air at its max.

What I really wish they made was a s100sxe lol.
600whp is A LOT. I'm a bit over 1/2 that right now, and it's nuts for something I drive every day on the street. My miata is faster than my C63 by a pretty large margin.

If you want 600whp with DD reliability, you need to say that's your goal and then build accordingly. Don't be a bitch, figure out what you want the car to do, then build it to do that.

I wanted 350whp with insta-spool and DD reliability/simplicity. Took me way longer than I anticipated it to, but I'm there finally and I'm very happy with how the car runs/drives. Ordered new head light bulbs/relays from Daniel Stern lighting and some new door speakers yesterday. Because I want the car to have good lighting and a nice stereo. The car is very close to being exactly what I want, and it's very enjoyable. And it's not the fastest miata by any stretch, any hot turbo setup would make more power.
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Old 12-09-2015, 03:42 PM   #5423
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See my last post. I think 600+ would be a stretch on the s200sxe. Fae went s366 when he wanted 600+

Budget is a significant portion of this too. I make decent money, and live cheap. But I don't have coin to go dropping on big money turbos all the time.

Right now I have about a 2.5k budget for the motor. (pistons, rods, oil pump, damper) and I would like to keep the turbo setup under 1k. with a cheap HX30 I bet I could keep the setup under $500.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:44 PM   #5424
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The thing is, Pat, you're missing something huge here: Aidan doesn't know EXACTLY what he wants out of the car, and I really believe he's more excited to build the car than he is to drive it.

He's like the polar opposite of me in that regard.

So sure, big MF'in turbo that few, if any, have tried on a BP and shoot for 600WHP? why the hell not, it's just a few weeks of work. It'll be fun. Not happy when it's done? Sell it to a drag racing guy and build another setup.

It'll be fun.....
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:49 PM   #5425
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The thing is, Pat, you're missing something huge here: Aidan doesn't know EXACTLY what he wants out of the car, and I really believe he's more excited to build the car than he is to drive it.

He's like the polar opposite of me in that regard.

So sure, big MF'in turbo that few, if any, have tried on a BP and shoot for 600WHP? why the hell not, it's just a few weeks of work. It'll be fun. Not happy when it's done? Sell it to a drag racing guy and build another setup.

It'll be fun.....
Oh I'm not missing it, I can clearly tell he doesn't know what he wants. That's why I wrote that he should figure that out. He keeps saying he has a budget, and not knowing what you want is a great way to spend time/money that won't get you where you wanted to be, and then you get to start over. I've had direct port nitrous, two turbo setups, and now a SC setup. I'm pretty good at building something without a target, and then having to redo it.

If he has more fun building it than driving it, that's sweet. I'm sort of the same way. I think it's about equal for me, enjoy both. Long builds get tiring after a while though for me. But it won't be cheaper to build it 3 times than once.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:50 PM   #5426
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No. What i'm saying is that HE DOES KNOW WHAT HE WANTS. he wants to bolt a bigass turbo to his motor and see how it feels. With building the mani DIY and shopping for a good deal on the turbo, he'll not lose any money when it comes time to change setups.

Basically a free (aside from time) experiment, and it'll be fun. Pretty sure that's what he wants. The specific result in terms of how the car ends up.... less important.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:55 PM   #5427
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I can't read people's minds and try to discuss what someone else thinks. I did the same things two years ago (bolt a bigass turbo to the motor to see how it feels). Just pointing out that didn't go as well as I thought it would, that setup was taken apart after 700 miles.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:57 PM   #5428
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I can't read people's minds and try to discuss what someone else thinks. I did the same things two years ago (bolt a bigass turbo to the motor to see how it feels). Just pointing out that didn't go as well as I thought it would, that setup was taken apart after 700 miles.
And to elaborate a bit, my goal was "go fast" and I didn't really think it through as well as I should have. Yeah it spun 4th from a roll around 100mph, but it was stupid for something I daily drive and want to enjoy. It was the definition of a dyno-queen setup.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:00 PM   #5429
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Totally. I'm not reading his mind, I've just spent quite a lot of time talking about different options with Aidan. Your experience is valuable.

I'd love to see him build a twin scroll setup, get a 550whp dyno, then sell the setup and get something that actually works properly.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:02 PM   #5430
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No. What i'm saying is that HE DOES KNOW WHAT HE WANTS. he wants to bolt a bigass turbo to his motor and see how it feels. With building the mani DIY and shopping for a good deal on the turbo, he'll not lose any money when it comes time to change setups.

...except for the rods hanging out of the side of the block.

--Ian
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:13 PM   #5431
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Thats another reason I haven't started building a motor yet. If I really do want to try for big power I want more than the standard supertec+ebay rod combo. I would really like to build a bulletproof motor once. As much as the FM weiscos make my wallet hurt I really think they could be a good choice. I browse ebay and craigslist all the time, just need to find a good deal on some NIB A beams or whatever the monster carillo rods are.

Pat, would you have liked your EFR if it had spooled earlier (because your BOV was closed) and quicker because twin scroll?

Someone sponsor me plz.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:23 PM   #5432
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Thats another reason I haven't started building a motor yet. If I really do want to try for big power I want more than the standard supertec+ebay rod combo. I would really like to build a bulletproof motor once. As much as the FM weiscos make my wallet hurt I really think they could be a good choice. I browse ebay and craigslist all the time, just need to find a good deal on some NIB A beams or whatever the monster carillo rods are.

Pat, would you have liked your EFR if it had spooled earlier (because your BOV was closed) and quicker because twin scroll?

Someone sponsor me plz.
FM Weisco's are the strongest pistons you can buy for a miata engine. That's why I run them. They are not the cheapest though. But really, if you look at failure rate % of each part in a miata motor, rods and pistons make up 98% of all component failures. The rest (oil pumps, head bolts, main bolts, engine block, valves, cams) RARELY ever break. It's always rods or pistons. So don't skimp on those.

When I built the EFR 7670 I thought it would spool similar to the GT3271 I had previously run, but with a lot more potential to make more power since it could flow sixty something lb/min of air vs the GT32 being in the mid 30's.

If it had spooled like the GT3271, it would still be on the car. The way my GT3271 spooled, it made full boost around 4,500 in REAL WORLD DRIVING (read, not doing 5th gear pulls starting at 1,800 RPMs.....) Yes it would do much better just like any other turbo if you take off in 5th at 2K but nobody actually drives their turbo car that way when you want to go fast.

The GT3271 made power from 4,500-7,500 so very usable powerband.


If I ever get the bug for more power, I would probably ditch the SC, buy a cast iron FM manifold like the one I previously had, and put the EFR 7670 back on. Wire all the bolts so nothing comes loose. Do 3" or larger exhaust. Make beaded steel intercooler pipes. Rev the motor to 8,000. I believe that turbo would make 40-45 PSI by 5,000 with the BOV issue fixed, and reving to 8K would give me a very usable 3K powerband. If it spooled sooner (not 5th gear 2K spool) great.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:23 PM   #5433
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Also I don't think twin scroll is going to do anything for spool. It probably will help power a bit though since it keeps the pulses divided, that will help scavenging between cylinders. But that wont' do anything for spool.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:27 PM   #5434
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It helps spool because one of the scrolls is smaller than the other. Check out something like this: Borg Warner 83-75 Twin Scroll vs. Single Scroll - NASIOC

Blue and red are larger A/R, but twin scroll. Green is smaller SS A/R.

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Old 12-09-2015, 05:27 PM   #5435
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I run the FM Weisco's and FM bought Carrillo H-beams with Carr bolts. Strongest pistons and strongest rods you can buy for a miata. (h-beam is heavier but stronger than the a-beam) I also bought a few other things when I made that purchase, but the rods/pistons were a bit over 2,000 for both.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:28 PM   #5436
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I run the FM Weisco's and FM bought Carrillo H-beams with Carr bolts. Strongest pistons and strongest rods you can buy for a miata. (h-beam is heavier but stronger than the a-beam) I also bought a few other things when I made that purchase, but the rods/pistons were a bit over 2,000 for both.
Ouch. ****, I wish I had soviets luck. Someone sell me their gently used FM weisco's please.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:33 PM   #5437
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I wish I had soviets luck.
I daily drive my car at full boost/full power EVERY DAY. I don't dyno it and then turn down the boost.

Don't buy used pistons, see your signature. You already said you want to build a motor once and do it right. Just do that.

If I were you, I'd do FM pistons, Carrillo H-beams, and an ATI damper. That's it for the bottom end. If you really need to pinch penny's, use ebay rods but keep the good pistons and ATI damper. I ran Ebay rods for 5 years and beat the crap out of them, they never missed a beat.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:36 PM   #5438
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Supermiata damper is on the list for sure. Pistons are still up in the air. I've heard good things about supertechs too though. Idk, this is all stuff for next winter. I have some personal finance things that need to get figured out before I drop coin on an engine. If plans turn into staying in this area long term then I may be saving for a downpayment instead of the car. Time will tell.

I'd like to see what a s200sxe will do on a BP, as far as I can tell it hasn't been done before. And it should be tried.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:41 PM   #5439
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You should read up on how dampers work. ATI is a better damper. Not cheaper, but better.

Actually, same for pistons. Cheapest not the same as best. Weisco's use a stronger alloy, AND a better design than the Supertechs. Look into the temp vs strength curve for each alloy if you really want to know which is better.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:46 PM   #5440
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I have read up on dampers. The supermiata damper is built specifically on the BP engine vibrations and damping those. the ATI is a fluidamper that works more generally.

I agree about pistons, but there is a price/quality crossover point that is always the sweetspot I try to hit. Where I'm paying for a quality product, but not overpaying for a name. (Not saying thats the case about wiesco's, but just in general)
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