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Sounds like broken signal line or one just popped off. Closed loop EBC is hard to tune though if that is what you are doing. I have almost got mine right, a couple more dry days. I log and analyze my boost duty with MAP and boost target on the same graph. Then only change one of P, I or D then log again. I found it impossible to tune driving around by myself without logging.
I'm not even messing with PIDs right now. Just trying to fill in my Bias Table completely.
When I get off of work I will be messing with it. If it's malfunctioning (hardware not software) I wonder how long it's been doing so. I have been chasing my tail with overboost for a long time.
Last edited by Chiburbian; 02-17-2017 at 01:52 PM.
I went cruising tonight and got stuck in some traffic in the heart of downtown Chicago. My car ran great all day but when it sits in traffic it dies and stalls out easily.
Almost nothing is more lame than sitting in the crosswalk of an intersection starting your car.
If I was able to log it happening, would anyone be willing to help?
any specific fields I should make sure are being logged?
also for anyone who cares, my wastegate pressure hose popped off. It's fixed.
I went cruising tonight and got stuck in some traffic in the heart of downtown Chicago. My car ran great all day but when it sits in traffic it dies and stalls out easily.
Almost nothing is more lame than sitting in the crosswalk of an intersection starting your car.
If I was able to log it happening, would anyone be willing to help?
any specific fields I should make sure are being logged?
also for anyone who cares, my wastegate pressure hose popped off. It's fixed.
If you do a computer log, all fields will be recorded and we can display what we wish. If SD logging, then you have to choose. Which is it?
I don't have any logs to go with it at the moment.
EDIT: Doing some comparing of my MS tune to my friend's FMII Hydra Nemesis tune... Very interesting that FM does not apparently use any MAT air density fuel trim but DOES use a coolant trim. I don't see how I would be able to do so easily MS. The best I can find is the MAT/CLT Correction table but that only factors in how much the coolant temperature affects the air charge temperature.
Last edited by Chiburbian; 02-18-2017 at 09:11 PM.
Spending some quality time going over my tune tonight and i'd like to learn more about some things that are confusing me. For now, I am looking at the Closed-Loop Idle Initial Values page.
The tooltip refers to this table being RPM/Load. This to me means that the X-axis is target RPM, and the Y-axis is load.
However, on the Closed-Loop Idle Settings page, it offers this selection:
Nowhere does it tell me how CLT or MAT is factored into the idle initial values table. Nowhere in the idle initial values table does it refer to temperature. It ONLY refers to load.
So, is the Y-axis on that table actually supposed to be Coolant or Air temperature, or is it MAP? If it IS MAP, how is CLT or AIT factored into that?
That means it is very poorly documented everywhere. I don't think that this will have anything to do with my problems, but it's still a part of the puzzle. Thanks.
I cleaned up some stuff. Look over this tune and let me know if anything sticks out at you, especially in the idle settings and anything related to heat and how it applies corrections.
I was also going crazy lean at low speeds last night which wasn't making it any easier.
Aside from the warmup, I didn't do much else. My right front brake caliper had a seized slide pin and it ate one of my pads so it was as good a time as any for a full brake job. I didn't find the caliper pin problem until my last wheel so unfortunately I couldn't finish. I need to get a new one on my way home tomorrow.
First observation is that the data supplied does not relate to the original question (at least not directly); which was about poorly idling, or not idling while driving. Nevertheless:
On the 14:49 (2.8MB) msl, what is the load added at the line (141 seconds). Regardless, the load goes up, and you move on the VE table such that you need 3% EGO. That could be tuned better.
Your cranking RPM is set at 700. This is usually 300. What will happen, is that you will be supplying the Cranking Pulse for a few more cycles than needed. May be OK.
On MAT correction. Continue 100% from 86 on up. Then tune for actual performance later. Better to be rich and take some out, than to drive lean at high MAT.
@Braineack, do all the EV 14 injectors really need this flat style VE table? I have seen it with Schuyler, PoorMxDad, at least.
You have high idle advance, and then little RPM error idle correction. This leaves little room for true correction. I would run idle advance in the 10-15* range, and then use an aggressive correction, like 8* for -50 RPM. I have found that good for stable idle.
I don't recall what engine you have. Looks like VVT. Not sure what idle valve control frequency should be, but on NB1, it is 512Hz.
With 1.4.1, I'm not sure if 3 seconds PID Delay is still needed, still, that would not be your issue.
Your initial values, and dashpot seem OD for 220* CLT. However, I recommend a sloping RPM to CLT curve, then use MAT and RPM to set the initial values. That takes more into account. Regardless if you use MAT to set initial values (you choose that under CL Idle Settings / Use CLT Or MAT...) The values below 200* in your initial values table need tuning.
I'll post this, and then look at your other msl.
Last edited by DNMakinson; 02-20-2017 at 02:45 PM.
Reason: Corrected for which MSL.
On your other MSL, you never went into CL. See Status2. It will go to 128, when CL Idle is on. Your idle valve is set at 27, which is the correct Target + Dashpot, but it is not causing the engine to settle at a higher RPM than the target idle value of 900 RPM. This is interesting in light of the other MSL where you are in CL and idle valve is a, IIRC 22%DC.
Did you run the idle test? It kind of seems to me that you have the screw set to idle at 900, and the valve is not doing anything.
First observation is that the data supplied does not relate to the original question (at least not directly); which was about poorly idling, or not idling while driving. Nevertheless:
On the 14:49 (2.8MB) msl, what is the load added at the line (141 seconds). Regardless, the load goes up, and you move on the VE table such that you need 3% EGO. That could be tuned better.
I am going to guess that it was the fans kicking on. I changed the fan triggers to be 185 degrees on and 190 degrees off for the purposes of the log. Normally I have them a bit higher.
Your cranking RPM is set at 700. This is usually 300. What will happen, is that you will be supplying the Cranking Pulse for a few more cycles than needed. May be OK.
Great, thanks. I don't know why I missed that.
On MAT correction. Continue 100% from 86 on up. Then tune for actual performance later. Better to be rich and take some out, than to drive lean at high MAT.
Will do.
@Braineack, do all the EV 14 injectors really need this flat style VE table? I have seen it with Schuyler, PoorMxDad, at least.
VE is cleaner than it normally looks. I made the mistake of running VEAL on the way home from the city the other night and it whacked out my VE table and I didn't have time to go find one that was closer to my actual table. I did a bunch of interpolation functions. When I get the car back on the road I will will run VEAL again and let it make some better adjustments.
You have high idle advance, and then little RPM error idle correction. This leaves little room for true correction. I would run idle advance in the 10-15* range, and then use an aggressive correction, like 8* for -50 RPM. I have found that good for stable idle.
I don't recall what engine you have. Looks like VVT. Not sure what idle valve control frequency should be, but on NB1, it is 512Hz.
With 1.4.1, I'm not sure if 3 seconds PID Delay is still needed, still, that would not be your issue.
All of the above is great, thanks. I will incorporate those changes. Although I am not sure about the idle valve thing. I have to check my notes.
Your initial values, and dashpot seem OD for 220* CLT.
OD?
However, I recommend a sloping RPM to CLT curve,
Where?
then use MAT and RPM to set the initial values. That takes more into account. Regardless if you use MAT to set initial values (you choose that under CL Idle Settings / Use CLT Or MAT...) The values below 200* in your initial values table need tuning.
Without looking at my tune this is very confusing. I will look at it more when I get home.
I'll post this, and then look at your other msl.
Thank you SO much. I meant to do some driving last night but with my brakes caliper slider pin seized I never made it out of the garage. Hoping I can get some better data tonight.
Just FYI - the third and fourth logs are mainly just long idling sessions with several fan activations. I tried to use the spacebar to mark when something interesting was about to happen or just did. I am not sure if it worked or not.
I tried messing with my EGO PID, but couldn't get any movement no matter what settings I used.
On your other MSL, you never went into CL. See Status2. It will go to 128, when CL Idle is on. Your idle valve is set at 27, which is the correct Target + Dashpot, but it is not causing the engine to settle at a higher RPM than the target idle value of 900 RPM. This is interesting in light of the other MSL where you are in CL and idle valve is a, IIRC 22%DC.
Did you run the idle test? It kind of seems to me that you have the screw set to idle at 900, and the valve is not doing anything.
I think I have my minimum duty cycle set to 20 because any lower and it's lower than my minimum target. It was my attempt at preventing my car from stalling. If I recall, minimum that I can move it to before it stalls is about 16-18% duty. The idle screw has not been touched.
02-17-2017, 11:44 AM
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