Faelflora breaks his promise, time to part out car. GIT THE SAWZALL!
#3543
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Just guesses here...
Corky designed it that way back in the mid 90's? Simple castings are cheap to develop & reproduce and are the obvious solution for anything involving quantity? The miata doesn't need any more power than aaerodyne 'small ball bearing' turbo? The person(s) who designed their newest casting were not the wisest choice for the job?
Because incorrect stud material? Because weld quality and design issues? Because there's more margin in a simple bracket & pipe clamp than pretty much anything else?
haha, or that. But when I think R&D, I think Trackspeed, not FM. Different target market & business model though.
Corky designed it that way back in the mid 90's? Simple castings are cheap to develop & reproduce and are the obvious solution for anything involving quantity? The miata doesn't need any more power than a
There is also a reason they sell a downpipe brace.
R&D
#3544
All these tubi manifolds cracking does kinda worry me though.
I mean ARtech stuff is considered top-notch on there, and it cracked. Wittyworks mani that soviet is rocking cracked too. Few others reported cracks as well on their good quality custom welded stuff.
Instances like this make me want to run a cast log to be quite honest. It also doesn't help that you yourself mentioned that you don't recommend ramhorn/tubular manifolds on daily drivers/etc.
But then I look at Dem, y8s, and the ABSURDcrew using and abusing their ETD/S4/and ABSURD mani's daily for long periods of time without a single hiccup.
And I'm back to being clueless on whether I should run a longtube on a daily or wussy out and get a log.
Ugh.
I mean ARtech stuff is considered top-notch on there, and it cracked. Wittyworks mani that soviet is rocking cracked too. Few others reported cracks as well on their good quality custom welded stuff.
Instances like this make me want to run a cast log to be quite honest. It also doesn't help that you yourself mentioned that you don't recommend ramhorn/tubular manifolds on daily drivers/etc.
But then I look at Dem, y8s, and the ABSURDcrew using and abusing their ETD/S4/and ABSURD mani's daily for long periods of time without a single hiccup.
And I'm back to being clueless on whether I should run a longtube on a daily or wussy out and get a log.
Ugh.
#3547
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
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All these tubi manifolds cracking does kinda worry me though.
I mean ARtech stuff is considered top-notch on there, and it cracked. Wittyworks mani that soviet is rocking cracked too. Few others reported cracks as well on their good quality custom welded stuff.
Instances like this make me want to run a cast log to be quite honest. It also doesn't help that you yourself mentioned that you don't recommend ramhorn/tubular manifolds on daily drivers/etc.
But then I look at Dem, y8s, and the ABSURDcrew using and abusing their ETD/S4/and ABSURD mani's daily for long periods of time without a single hiccup.
And I'm back to being clueless on whether I should run a longtube on a daily or wussy out and get a log.
Ugh.
I mean ARtech stuff is considered top-notch on there, and it cracked. Wittyworks mani that soviet is rocking cracked too. Few others reported cracks as well on their good quality custom welded stuff.
Instances like this make me want to run a cast log to be quite honest. It also doesn't help that you yourself mentioned that you don't recommend ramhorn/tubular manifolds on daily drivers/etc.
But then I look at Dem, y8s, and the ABSURDcrew using and abusing their ETD/S4/and ABSURD mani's daily for long periods of time without a single hiccup.
And I'm back to being clueless on whether I should run a longtube on a daily or wussy out and get a log.
Ugh.
also, I dont track the car.
#3549
The ETD shorty that I picked up had a small crack on the wastegate arm that was caused from flanges not being flattened correctly and hot spots forming. Which makes sense considering the position of the wastegate arm and the weight hanging off it.
Here is a pic of the gusset:
The manifold itself is Sch.40 mild steel and is an absolute tank. It's rare to hear about ETD manifolds cracking, even the stainless, turbular manifolds.
Here is a pic of the gusset:
The manifold itself is Sch.40 mild steel and is an absolute tank. It's rare to hear about ETD manifolds cracking, even the stainless, turbular manifolds.
#3550
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FM uses a log because "big power" in a miata used to be 250hp. You don't need a tubular for 250hp. If you are going for over 350hp though, a cast log manifold really becomes restrictive. I saw this on the dyno with my BEGI S5 log. Above 18psi, I was only getting 1-3 more hp per psi. That is miserable and the only thing causing that was my cast log manifold.
#3551
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All these tubi manifolds cracking does kinda worry me though.
I mean ARtech stuff is considered top-notch on there, and it cracked. Wittyworks mani that soviet is rocking cracked too. Few others reported cracks as well on their good quality custom welded stuff.
Instances like this make me want to run a cast log to be quite honest. It also doesn't help that you yourself mentioned that you don't recommend ramhorn/tubular manifolds on daily drivers/etc.
I mean ARtech stuff is considered top-notch on there, and it cracked. Wittyworks mani that soviet is rocking cracked too. Few others reported cracks as well on their good quality custom welded stuff.
Instances like this make me want to run a cast log to be quite honest. It also doesn't help that you yourself mentioned that you don't recommend ramhorn/tubular manifolds on daily drivers/etc.
Personally, I think my manifold and Soviet's manifold cracked because we were both running lots of retard. Me, because of 35psi, and him because he was running a SUPER SUPER SUPER "SAFE" timing map. Shrug
Also mine cracked because 60+lbs weight
#3552
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Wrong.
FM uses a log because "big power" in a miata used to be 250hp. You don't need a tubular for 250hp. If you are going for over 350hp though, a cast log manifold really becomes restrictive. I saw this on the dyno with my BEGI S5 log. Above 18psi, I was only getting 1-3 more hp per psi. That is miserable and the only thing causing that was my cast log manifold.
FM uses a log because "big power" in a miata used to be 250hp. You don't need a tubular for 250hp. If you are going for over 350hp though, a cast log manifold really becomes restrictive. I saw this on the dyno with my BEGI S5 log. Above 18psi, I was only getting 1-3 more hp per psi. That is miserable and the only thing causing that was my cast log manifold.
Wrong.
FM uses a log because they wanted to be backwards compatible to the BEGi kits they used to selll...
how would you know what really restrictive looks like? you've never dynoed over 250rwhp
#3554
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Everyone:
I want to say that Abe/ARTech has been fantastic to work with. He has always been extremely responsive, and I think his work is top notch. His fab job on my turbo rig was EXTREMELY custom and required a LOT of work for fitament. Who else do you know that has fabbed a manifold for a miata with a S366, a 1/2" thick QSV, and a 3.5" downpipe? Again, other fabricators that saw his work were very impressed.
I know my dyno test was shizte numbers, but the design does perform very well, and obviously makes power at high boost and high RPM without causing a restriction. I would use him again for another build. He has also been extremely responsive for my crack issue.
The only reason why I posted this up here instead of keeping it private is to crowdsource a little bit and get some opinions on how to keep this from happening again. That said, this is just one more downfall/issue with running more HP than... stock. If I ever go LS I'm going to get a $20,000 800hp crate motor. And not turbo it.
FWIW, my BEGI S5 also cracked all over the place too. And yes, that is a log. It cracked at the "wastegate collector" part. Note that BEGI made FM's manifolds for many years. Horrible shizzty pathetic design, unless you only want 250hp.
Again, I strongly recommend ARTech.
I want to say that Abe/ARTech has been fantastic to work with. He has always been extremely responsive, and I think his work is top notch. His fab job on my turbo rig was EXTREMELY custom and required a LOT of work for fitament. Who else do you know that has fabbed a manifold for a miata with a S366, a 1/2" thick QSV, and a 3.5" downpipe? Again, other fabricators that saw his work were very impressed.
I know my dyno test was shizte numbers, but the design does perform very well, and obviously makes power at high boost and high RPM without causing a restriction. I would use him again for another build. He has also been extremely responsive for my crack issue.
The only reason why I posted this up here instead of keeping it private is to crowdsource a little bit and get some opinions on how to keep this from happening again. That said, this is just one more downfall/issue with running more HP than... stock. If I ever go LS I'm going to get a $20,000 800hp crate motor. And not turbo it.
FWIW, my BEGI S5 also cracked all over the place too. And yes, that is a log. It cracked at the "wastegate collector" part. Note that BEGI made FM's manifolds for many years. Horrible shizzty pathetic design, unless you only want 250hp.
Again, I strongly recommend ARTech.
#3555
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Not going to quote all of you.
I'm talking about reliability and not having issues like THIS. If you want something to last, and make what i would consider "plenty" or "enough" power out of a miata, a log style manifold (regardless of who makes it) is the way to go. Now i'm not saying they're better, and can make more power because they can't. I'm simply saying there is a reason FM uses the brace and the cast manifold. Reason being, they advertise their power outputs without fail and stand by it without issue.
Edit* Before people think i'm on FM's dick i'm not. I'm pissed they recommended restricting my exhaust to fix my boost creep problem. But that's another issue.
I'm talking about reliability and not having issues like THIS. If you want something to last, and make what i would consider "plenty" or "enough" power out of a miata, a log style manifold (regardless of who makes it) is the way to go. Now i'm not saying they're better, and can make more power because they can't. I'm simply saying there is a reason FM uses the brace and the cast manifold. Reason being, they advertise their power outputs without fail and stand by it without issue.
Edit* Before people think i'm on FM's dick i'm not. I'm pissed they recommended restricting my exhaust to fix my boost creep problem. But that's another issue.
#3560
its not about who makes it, but the design. A singular tube runner manifold relies on the turbo position, what i have, fae has, and others have is a bottom mounted turbo setup, so in turn with every heat expansion, and cool contraction the manifold goes through a lot of stretching carrying the turbo during these events. Eventually it will show signs of metal fatigue and no precision welding will prevent it, the only preventive measure when using a very heavy turbo is bracing and craning, to relieve weight off the manifold from turbo and downpipe sway. Yeah, types of steel and thicknesses will only put off the inevitable a few miles later, but it will happen if there isnt any weight relieved off the manifold.