HornetBall's Build #2: Meet Red - Page 21 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-09-2014, 02:58 PM   #401
Elite Member
 
Jeffbucc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Cedar City, UT
Posts: 2,769
Total Cats: 946
Default

Thanks Rick, that was above and beyond the information I was looking for. Sounds like I didn't make a stupid choice. Just can't wait for the newly revised 15x9's to be released so I can put the 225s on the proper width.
Jeffbucc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2014, 11:50 PM   #402
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 5,808
Total Cats: 554
Default

Getting towards the end of the year. Time to take stock of what I've accomplished with this build.

At the beginning of the year, started with a clean Miata that had some good parts but needed some engineering and love. Got it on track the middle of May but then pulled the engine to fix an oil consumption issue. Back on track in August.

Since August, I've dropped my laptimes by 5 seconds on the 1.7CCW . . . more than one second a month! I'm pretty darned pleased. Here's a chronology:

8/9/2014: 1:30.1 (lap #13 starting around 3:00)

8/15/2014: 1:28.8 (lap #7 starting around 4:35)
I'm following "Miatamoto" in his S2000. Improving skill level plus modifying the line away from the "school" line and more towards a "fast" line.

9/1/2014: 1:27.221
Nothing provides incentive like a 911GT3.

11/30/2014: 1:26.212 (last lap starting around 4:25)
Chasing a legit race car, a NASA American Iron series Mustang.

12/12/2014: 1:25.229
The REALLY fast guys now know who I am and enjoy giving me lead-follows. This is Brett Gabriel, multi-year TX region SCCA Spec Miata champ. He's still quite a bit faster than me in his non-spec practice car, but not so much faster that we're not having fun.

Bottom line, reliable car + seat time = Rapid, Steady Progress
hornetball is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2014, 03:09 AM   #403
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Mobius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 2,778
Total Cats: 205
Default

Sweet. Great to see the progress Rick.
Mobius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 02:29 PM   #404
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 5,808
Total Cats: 554
Default Catback Comparison/Experiment

I'm recording this for posterity.

When I bought the car, it had an Enthuza-built 2.5" catback with Magnaflow resonator and muffler (R-Speed GT). The exhaust sounds good and makes good power. The only problem is that it's heavy (25 pounds). With a lot of track driving, it sometimes shifts until it contacts car structure (even though I'm using poly hangers). Every so often, I have to get under the car and adjust it.

I decided to try and find a lighter catback. I still wanted to get reasonable noise control so that an intercom could be used on-track. That ruled out most of the Spec Miata exhausts. Flowmaster's dBX system caught my eye and wasn't too expensive. Online reviews said that it was lightweight and noise control was good. It uses a Flowmaster dBX muffler that is kind of a hybrid reflective/absorptive design with built-in vortex cones and absorptive packing (Flowmaster dBX SERIES LAMINAR FLOW MUFFLERS). It uses 2.25" pipe and doesn't have a resonator, so clearance would be improved over the Enthuza catback.

Upstream of the catback is a Racing Beat header with 2.5" collector and an Enthuza 2.5" test pipe (cat deleted). The catback specs:

R-Speed GT (built by Enthuza):
https://www.rspeed.net/RSpeed_Exhaus.../na0-1016.htm:

Pipe Diameter: 2.5"
Material: 304 Stainless Steel
Weight: 25 pounds
Resonator: Magnaflow 14" Absorptive
Muffler: Magnaflow 18" Absorptive
Main Bends: Mandrel 90 degrees in and out of muffler

Flowmaster 819110:
Flowmaster 819110, Flowmaster dBX Series Exhaust Systems | Flowmaster

Pipe Diameter: 2.25"
Material: 409 Stainless Steel
Weight: 18 pounds
Resonator: None
Muffler: Flowmaster dBX 12414310 Reflective/Absorptive
Main Bends: Mandrel 60 degrees in and out of muffler

Fit and Finish:
Both exhaust systems fit the car well. No issues at all with installation.

The R-Speed GT, like all Enthuza products, is really high-quality. The pictured exhaust is about 6 years old and has been on the car for thousands of miles and countless off-track excursions. I'm sure it could be polished up (304SS) to look like new if you're into that sort of thing.

The Flowmaster dBX also seemed to be a high-quality piece, although it's finish is OEM (409SS) rather than flashy.

Noise Control:
This is the part where I post a couple of youtube vids and tell you to go listen to the crappy audio, right? Wrong. You guys know me better than that.

Instead, I got the Real Time Analyzer (RTA) App for my iPod and captured audio spectrums. The iPod location is just below the rear view mirror:
Combined iPod/iPhone and GPS Mount for NAs

Car configuration was windows closed and hardtop on with a stripped interior. Pretty much worse case for interior noise.

I captured audio in peak-hold mode during my Virtual Dyno pulls. This records the peak frequencies heard at full throttle from 3000 to 7000RPM. Note that the vertical scales are shifted, sorry about that -- operator error.

R-Speed GT:


Flowmaster dBX:


Like most performance catbacks, both systems let low-frequency audio through. In the middle frequencies, there are significant resonances just below 250Hz and around 500Hz. The Flowmaster dBX really has a hard time with the 250Hz resonance (peaks to about 113dB) but controls the 500Hz resonance better (103dB vs. 107dB for the R-Speed GT). In the higher frequencies, there is no comparison. With easily double the muffled volume, the R-Speed GT kills those high frequencies while the Flowmaster dBX lets them through with another resonance around 7kHz. I would desribe the Flowmaster dBX's sound at full-throttle as "raspier." Both these screen captures were made with the car idling after the Virtual Dyno pulls. At idle, the Flowmaster dBX has the edge (69.2dBA vs. 73.8dBA).

I also made steady-state 70mph audio captures while climbing a slight grade. Again, the vertical scales are slightly shifted.

R-Speed GT:


Flowmaster dBX:


Results here are similar, although the resonance peaks stand out more. The Flowmaster dBX's reflective technology is cancelling a lot of those peaks but it's lack of muffled volume is letting much more high-frequency audio come through. Again, the Flowmaster dBX sounds "raspy" in comparison to the R-Speed GT, but the overall sound intensity at this speed is less (91.7dBA vs. 96.3dBA).

Power:
And, the moment you've all been waiting for. It's been windy here, so it was tough to get a good VD comparison. I did numerous runs. Overall, the Flowmaster dBX system cost me about 5HP. This is representative:


Not sure if the difference is the smaller piping or the Muffler technology. Some say that big pipes on a normally aspirated car cause a torque loss, but that's not what I experienced. My results seem similar to FM's in that regard (http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_...ebb_082099.pdf).

Epilogue:
So, in the end I decided that 7 pounds wasn't worth 5HP. I also liked the sound of the R-Speed GT better. It's back on. Anyone want to buy a barely used Flowmaster dBX system?
hornetball is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 04:51 PM   #405
The Discreet
iTrader: (1)
 
Ryephile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 265
Total Cats: 26
Default

Buzzy and loses power, bummer on the Flowmaster. :(

Props for a more thorough comparison than 99% of all aftermarket companies.
Ryephile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 06:40 PM   #406
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,985
Total Cats: 409
Default

It's because of people like Rick that this is the best damn internet forum on the web.

Very interesting.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 11:24 AM   #407
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 152
Total Cats: 7
Default

Great comparison. Data rules.
freedomgli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 02:35 PM   #408
Senior Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murfreesboro,TN
Posts: 1,153
Total Cats: 28
Default

I'm curious how my Magnaflow exhaust compares to the dBx. It looks similar to your Enthuza but with 2.25" piping. I should weight it while I have it off the car.
Midtenn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 12:28 AM   #409
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 5,808
Total Cats: 554
Default

Here we go again!



At least I'm getting really fast at pulling the head. Why you ask?

Help!! My Intake Valves Keep Wearing Out!

Here's what the valves looked like last time:

Intake Valve (trashed):


Exhaust Valve (normal):


Closeup of that Intake Valve:


I expect this set to look similar. They are very recessed into the head. My machinist bud whose shop burned down in the Spring is back in business. He's getting the head this time. To heck with that other guy. Grrrrr . . . .
Attached Thumbnails
HornetBall's Build #2:  Meet Red-img_0505.jpg  
hornetball is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 04:07 AM   #410
Elite Member
 
Jeffbucc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Cedar City, UT
Posts: 2,769
Total Cats: 946
Default

God that must be frustrating. Stop pinging redline so much will yah!

Hope you get your three and done solution Rick.
Jeffbucc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 02:19 PM   #411
Senior Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murfreesboro,TN
Posts: 1,153
Total Cats: 28
Default

I feel your pain (to a lesser degree). I told my wife I was removing the turbo from my car to make it more reliable and here I an less than a year later pulling the engine because I failed to fully inspect the motor last year.
Midtenn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 02:00 PM   #412
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 5,808
Total Cats: 554
Default

So, rebuilt a fresher used head I picked up off E-bay. Used a different machine shop this time. Fingers crossed.

Got it back together but then got busy with work and dealt with the crud. FINALLY got back on track this last weekend.

Without further ado, track video! I'm running with an M3 on Continental slicks. He loses it at 8:10. I GOT THE VIDEO!! LOL.

hornetball is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 02:04 PM   #413
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Granbury, Tx
Posts: 815
Total Cats: 14
Default

Looking good out there!

Who did you end up using for your machine work?
FowlerMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 02:12 PM   #414
SadFab Sales Lady
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,796
Total Cats: 931
Default

God that track looks awesome...I love how there is nothing to hit. Looks like my kind of track.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 02:19 PM   #415
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 309
Total Cats: 39
Default

Glad to see you back on the track!

This weekend was beautiful outside. Seemed like ideal track day weather to me. In my case, ideal weather to spend the weekend outside with the wife instead of doing school work!

Enough sun to heat up the track surface, but air temps in the lower 70s to keep temps down, power up, and avoid buckets of sweat.

I enjoyed watching the M3 lose it in the video. Thanks for posting!
Dustin1824 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 02:30 PM   #416
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 5,808
Total Cats: 554
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FowlerMotorsports View Post
Looking good out there!

Who did you end up using for your machine work?
AMS in Ft. Worth really let me down. They've had the 1.6 from the Silver car since last June!! And, of course, this valve nonsense.

Now that Donnie's built his new shop after the fire, I'm back with him. So far, so good on the head. But only about 4 track hours in. The other heads would eat their valves in about 20 track hours, so we'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
I love how there is nothing to hit.
AMEN. Really popular track for those with really expensive cars. The only things to hit are Miatas. LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin1824 View Post
Glad to see you back on the track!

This weekend was beautiful outside. Seemed like ideal track day weather to me. In my case, ideal weather to spend the weekend outside with the wife instead of doing school work!

Enough sun to heat up the track surface, but air temps in the lower 70s to keep temps down, power up, and avoid buckets of sweat.

I enjoyed watching the M3 lose it in the video. Thanks for posting!
INSTALL YOUR ROLL BAR!! NAOW!!
hornetball is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 02:54 PM   #417
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 309
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post

INSTALL YOUR ROLL BAR!! NAOW!!
Tell me about it.

If I had a roll bar, I would have already installed it!

Every time, and I mean EVERY TIME I almost get enough extra money saved up to buy the roll bar I want (Blackbird Fabworx NB GT3 4-pt), something stupid happens.

About 6 weeks ago, my wife sprained her ankle. ALLOFIT sprain. Category 3. Doctors said she would have been much better off breaking it. Apparently her insurance sucks, cost us almost $2K for the emergency room visit, x-rays, boot, and physical therapy.

The goal is now rollbar before Hallett '15
Dustin1824 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 03:05 PM   #418
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 5,808
Total Cats: 554
Default

Sorry to hear about the sprain. That sounds nasty.

Blackbirds are sweet, for sure, but a used Hard Dog gets you on track. Just sayin'.
hornetball is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 03:32 PM   #419
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Granbury, Tx
Posts: 815
Total Cats: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Now that Donnie's built his new shop after the fire, I'm back with him. So far, so good on the head. But only about 4 track hours in. The other heads would eat their valves in about 20 track hours, so we'll see.
There's only one other shop I would recommend (who I take all of my performance heads to) If it comes down to it let me know and I will get you hooked up
FowlerMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 03:59 PM   #420
Elite Member
 
Jeffbucc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Cedar City, UT
Posts: 2,769
Total Cats: 946
Default

Man you hurt that M3 owners pride repeatedly. Good work man. You are really smooth out there.
Jeffbucc is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 52 08-28-2016 05:18 AM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
1991 special edition with hard top full part out JC, NJ russian Miata parts for sale/trade 6 10-08-2015 04:01 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM
K&N Intake Filter nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 0 09-28-2015 09:46 PM


Tags
bracket no hit bolt

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:59 PM.