ITT we discuss why not to turbo your daily bent rod - Page 12 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-30-2015, 06:07 PM   #221
Elite Member
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 1,898
Total Cats: 166
Default

Another thought would be to allow higher boost, but controlled with EBC so that torque at lower RPM can be controlled. This can allow 200ft-lbs flat curve with more HP than if you try to run a higher WGA or MBC.

This would be catagorized as an idea, as I'm not certain what kind of natural curve you would generate with a high WGA spring; but I offer it as food for thought and an opening for comment from the more experienced members.

Karter74 1.8

This shows Karter74's 1.8 (likely 9:1 Compression Ratio) with a curve he says he ran for some years (I don't know how much running and how much sitting). You could run the 10:1 CR with E85, and duplicate the torque curve with EBC.

You know that I also have been becoming shy by all these engine failures lately; and have been thinking about staying with 7.5 psi wastegate. However, when my WGA was leaking, and I was at 12 psi at red line (admitedly for only about a month of DD), I had no detectable issues.

We need to hear from lots of folks that have run 200-225 ft-lbs for years with no failure.
DNMakinson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 11:42 AM   #222
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 10
Default

I heard from Jeff about what happened and randomly came across this thread. Subbing to read about what happens. Let me know if you need an extra hand, and nice job on picking up that VVT engine.
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 12:46 PM   #223
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMakinson View Post
Another thought would be to allow higher boost, but controlled with EBC so that torque at lower RPM can be controlled. This can allow 200ft-lbs flat curve with more HP than if you try to run a higher WGA or MBC. This would be catagorized as an idea, as I'm not certain what kind of natural curve you would generate with a high WGA spring; but I offer it as food for thought and an opening for comment from the more experienced members. Karter74 1.8 This shows Karter74's 1.8 (likely 9:1 Compression Ratio) with a curve he says he ran for some years (I don't know how much running and how much sitting). You could run the 10:1 CR with E85, and duplicate the torque curve with EBC. You know that I also have been becoming shy by all these engine failures lately; and have been thinking about staying with 7.5 psi wastegate. However, when my WGA was leaking, and I was at 12 psi at red line (admitedly for only about a month of DD), I had no detectable issues. We need to hear from lots of folks that have run 200-225 ft-lbs for years with no failure.
</p><p>I'm not opposed to this idea. I'm going to wire up the EBC while the motor is out and mount it. It'll be there waiting for whenever I decide to hook it up. Also probably going to do some ducting while the car is down, add the knock module, add E85 mods, port the internal wastegate, clean the engine bay, paint the new block, and probably more things to come. So, she's probably going to sit for a little while. But, hopefully I will have some carnage for you all soon, along with a new desk ornament.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Also, random picture of new motor being pulled. Not having a shifter made this so much easier...</p><p><img src="http://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/720x960/80-11009193_10204979452231666_5662739518872355404_n_8 dd0d4e6277865ecce9eb1f1a9749b3ef4b0768f.jpg" title="" /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2015, 12:36 PM   #224
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>Why does this FPR seem so much cheaper than the other Aeromotive FPRs?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>
Amazon.com: Aeromotive 13129 EFI Fuel Pressure Regulator: Automotive Amazon.com: Aeromotive 13129 EFI Fuel Pressure Regulator: Automotive
</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2015, 01:08 PM   #225
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,237
Total Cats: 554
Default

Because it's a single inlet. Nothing wrong with it, do it.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2015, 05:28 PM   #226
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Centennial, CO
Posts: 659
Total Cats: 18
Default

If anyone is curious about the longevity of my setup, here's what I can tell you.

Car had ~25k boosted miles on it including multiple track days, 1 drift event and a couple drag race events. During this time I mainly ran the car around 15psi, only about the last 5k miles did I run at ~18psi. Never once had a problem or indication of an issue, but I will say, even with all the miles and track time, I still show mechanical empathy. I only ran a MBC as I never had luck with MS1's EBC.

Can't say there was any secret to my success really. Then again, on the street I ran super shitty 185 size tires that would break traction on a moments notice, but I did run R-comps during my track days.
karter74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2015, 05:31 PM   #227
SadFab Sales Lady
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 15,209
Total Cats: 976
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Because it's a single inlet. Nothing wrong with it, do it.
<br />
<br /><br />
<br />What is dual inlet for?
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2015, 05:45 PM   #228
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>
Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Because it's a single inlet. Nothing wrong with it, do it.
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You sure? It seems double inlet to me. Biggest downside I see is it's bigger, and -6AN ORB. The fuelab can use both, but I would still have to buy -6an union fittings since I don't think male hose ends are a thing.</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2015, 05:47 PM   #229
SadFab Sales Lady
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 15,209
Total Cats: 976
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
What is dual inlet for?
<br />V8, V6, V10, V12 etc.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2015, 05:56 PM   #230
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 248
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schuyler View Post
<p></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You sure? It seems double inlet to me. Biggest downside I see is it's bigger, and -6AN ORB. The fuelab can use both, but I would still have to buy -6an union fittings since I don't think male hose ends are a thing.</p>
I looked at the product sheet on the aeromotive and it says it's -6AN o-ring sealed. It's the same as SAE -6ORB. Threads are the same, uses an o-ring to seal. Aeromotive is just calling it the wrong thing in their documentation. you need -6ORB to -whateverAN adapter just like with the fuel lab.

Edited for clarity: the thread diameter and pitch are identical between -6AN, -6JIC, and -6JIC-37* flare. Both AN and JIC connections seal via contact of a conical seat and tapered cone. Sealing an ORB fitting in an appropriately prepared threaded orifice(with o-ring sealing surface) the threads make the mechanical connection, but the o-ring provides the seal. When installing a fitting into a block or catch can, it is common to use a union with a -X ORB male on one end and a -X1 JIC/AN.

A very large majority of Motorsports mfgs that are selling these fittings to builders and enthusiasts are selling high quality anodized aluminum SAE (JIC, ORB, etc) fittings of some sort but they will list these as AN connections due to past ties with the military and hot rod cars. The AN standards specify much tighter machining tolerances and more stringent qc inspections and testing. I don't know much much true AN fittings cost, but its going to be several times over what we pay now for the automotive use stuff.

Last edited by stoves; 07-08-2015 at 11:51 PM. Reason: Clarity
stoves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2015, 07:45 PM   #231
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>I still have to pull a/c, power steering, and unbolt the trans from the PP frame. Other than that, should be good to go. Going to pull the motor tomorrow, but doubt we'll break it down until thursday or friday.</p><p>Ordered FPR and DW200. Going to start it up and drive it easy the rest of this 93 tank (if the new motor doesn't knock when I first start it... #Junkyard). After that, before we really get in boost again, I'll get her started and tuned on E85.&nbsp;</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2015, 10:50 PM   #232
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>Old motor is out. I'll break it down Friday and post carnage.</p><p>I've decided the VVT head WILL be for sale. I'll take pictures once it's off. I'm going to swap my 99 head (so long as it's good) so if I decide to part out the car, I have the correct head to run with the factory ECU.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/2000x1333/80-aae1nzd_9ceaf436ae38979be2744333e0b136c39e95fa89.j pg" title="" /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2015, 11:01 PM   #233
SadFab Sales Lady
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 15,209
Total Cats: 976
Default

<p>BOOOOO. Stupid reason to make less torques.</p>
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2015, 11:02 PM   #234
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>I predict I will find damage to all four&nbsp;rods. I don't feel as though making more torque is an issue.</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 10:31 AM   #235
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>When I break down the bottom end, what matters that I number which cylinder it went to?</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2015, 02:59 PM   #236
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>Got round 1 of parts from Fab9, the rest will be here on Monday.</p><p>Also, is this wear and heat spots on my clutch / flywheel normal/acceptable for like 5-6k miles?</p><p><img src="http://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/2000x1333/80-5y2npjv_2da979084085667685aa8944fd2ed00202d0ce37.j pg" title="" /><br /><br /><img src="http://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/2000x1333/80-uzssbfv_0a284a02de04550374b5e81b8139e89d80eb91fe.j pg" title="" /><br /><br /><img src="http://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/2000x1333/80-x82qkfc_85b6e5db17af390fd732e378826b9fbd532fbe56.j pg" title="" /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2015, 02:59 PM   #237
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>Also what happened to the automatic image resizing stuff?</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2015, 06:41 PM   #238
Elite Member
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 1,898
Total Cats: 166
Default

<p>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schuyler View Post
</p><p>Also what happened to the automatic image resizing stuff?</p><p>
</p><p>Discussed in the new upload applet thread that it is now broken, at least under some methods of up-loading.</p><p>Still waiting for tear-down. Still not sure it is the timing (from other thread). I plan to run a series of VD at 150kPa at present map (similar to yours), 3deg less, 6 deg less. Try to find MBT at that level of boost. Hope to have time to do so in the morning.</p><p>EDIT: I was not comfortable making that many runs in the location I had in mind.&nbsp;</p>

Last edited by DNMakinson; 07-19-2015 at 10:41 AM.
DNMakinson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2015, 07:10 PM   #239
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMakinson View Post
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Discussed in the new upload applet thread that it is now broken, at least under some methods of up-loading.</p><p>Still waiting for tear-down. Still not sure it is the timing (from other thread). I plan to run a series of VD at 150kPa at present map (similar to yours), 3deg less, 6 deg less. Try to find MBT at that level of boost. Hope to have time to do so in the morning.</p><p>
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Oh I don't think it was timing, at least not directly. I think we just pushed the car too hard and bent rods. Despite me thinking 225ft-lb should have been safe.</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2015, 07:08 PM   #240
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,305
Total Cats: 73
Default

<p>More fuel goodies from Fab9. (poorly focused but too lazy to retake it)</p><p>Also, a picture of how I'm going from the regulator -&gt; return line. I'm going to just use fuel line and clamps for most of what's at the tank and under the car, but I wanted what's visible up from to look decent.</p><p><img src="http://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/2000x1333/80-85gzjlr_303f6957754acf9f2f2e7eb6b475dec5eb1af8ce.j pg" title="" /><br /><br /><img src="http://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/2000x1333/80-cget8yr_0d62d210d2f3a3e8e02341452be527d2f746e160.j pg" title="" /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
Schuyler is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another Cast Manifold Corky Bell Prefabbed Turbo Kits 18 11-22-2016 10:01 PM
Garrett Turbo, 1.8 Oil Pan, & Misc. Stuff nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 8 03-21-2016 11:53 PM
Bp/b6 Scat H beam rods Dparks7 Miata parts for sale/trade 1 09-28-2015 10:49 AM
WTB HPDE miata - Texas Voltwings Cars for sale/trade 0 09-27-2015 07:40 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:09 PM.