jtothawhat is about to bust a 1.6
04-22-2011, 01:43 PM
#62
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Love the flex fuel feature, but don't go bashin' AEM. We are talking about fully programmable ecm's, that means you have to have the enrichment set right for cold start. That will be the case for any ecm.
My answer for no e85 is easy, I pull the $200 acer computer the rides in the back seat pocket out and upload my gas map....have not had to do it yet but can switch fuels if I need to. I like the sensor, but if it fails you are f**ked. I like the KISS principal. Kind of like the best safety on a gun is a trigger finger indexed along its side.
Good luck with the build, I am interested in seeing how long a properly built and tuned 1.6 can live at high hp.
My answer for no e85 is easy, I pull the $200 acer computer the rides in the back seat pocket out and upload my gas map....have not had to do it yet but can switch fuels if I need to. I like the sensor, but if it fails you are f**ked. I like the KISS principal. Kind of like the best safety on a gun is a trigger finger indexed along its side.
Good luck with the build, I am interested in seeing how long a properly built and tuned 1.6 can live at high hp.
Pulling out a laptop and switching maps is kind of a half *** way to fix this problem due to you having to drain your tank each time, as well as, ethonal content changing from season to season and from pump to pump--your tune will never be spot on. (I thought of doing it this way, but was quickly told how bad of an idea it is)
This ecu has so many fail-safes built in it's stupid, for instance my fuel pressure sensor that I am installing with this, if fuel pressure drops during a pull the ecu is will correct this by dumping fuel to make up for it, if it doesn't fix the issue it will automatically change the rev limiter and pull timing. There was a Supra on the dyno last week, making a 800 whp pull the Fuel Labs FPR crapped out and went from 60 psi to 10 at the line, with out this feature the engine would have been starved for fuel at 7000 rpm and who knows what would happen. There is similar fail safes for flex fuel as well.
I have had over 380 whp for over 3 years now and 10,000+ miles which included two cross country trips. Hopefully it holds up for a long time so I don't want to keep spending money lol
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04-22-2011, 01:55 PM
#64
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Even for you road racers whose cars take a lot of abuse from vibrations and stuff, take out your AEM/MS flip it upside down and shake the **** out of it then drop it onto the ground plug it in and see how it works.
Watch this just for knock control
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04-22-2011, 02:00 PM
#65
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It's not just about the flex fuel sensor, this ecu can do 10x the things a MS2/MS3 can do. Nothing wrong with a MegaSquirt but if you have the extra cash I wouldn't even think twice.
Even for you road racers whose cars take a lot of abuse from vibrations and stuff, take out your AEM/MS flip it upside down and shake the **** out of it then drop it onto the ground plug it in and see how it works.
Even for you road racers whose cars take a lot of abuse from vibrations and stuff, take out your AEM/MS flip it upside down and shake the **** out of it then drop it onto the ground plug it in and see how it works.
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04-22-2011, 02:03 PM
#66
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12 Injector drivers - All with built in Injector drivers!!
16 Coil Drivers - Yes 16!!! No more waste spark!!
32 Analog inputs!!! - There are 32 analog inputs which will be preconfigured for anything you want to do... I.E. plug in a fuel pressure sensor and it automatically activates the trims associated with it. Put a Nitrous pressure sensor on your car and the computer trims fuel accordingly to bottle pressure!! You can datalog everything imaginable!!
10 Low side driver outputs - You can configure these to do whatever you can imagine. Also these will all support 4+ amps each!!
Built in wideband!! - That says it all!!
True volumetric efficeincy - So things like injector and pressure changes don’t have to be calculated and multiple maps changed, it’s all done in the background by simply entering your injector size and base fuel pressure. Actually knowing the injector size and fuel pressure, this allows us to make instantanious feedback changes to things like fuel pressure not staying constant, without relying on the O2 sensor for delayed information. Changing fuel type is as simple as entering the stoichiametric ratio for the fuel used.
Fault coding – Check engine light will tell you fault codes to help diagnose problems. Actions can be assigned with the fault codes. I.E. low oil pressure triggers a fault code, and activates a low rpm limiter. O2 sensor faults will automatically turn off block learning and closed loop feedback. Also the fault codes will be the same as the original ECU!!!
Traction control – multiple comprehensive traction control strategies including defined wheel speed differential between driven and non-driven wheels.
True knock sensing capability with specific knock frequency detection based upon the specific engine being monitored. (See youtube video above)
Multiple failsafe conditions making it nearly impossible to damage your engine in the case of tuning errors or mechanical malfunctions. I.E. lean, and knock conditions can be used to turn off nitrous, shut down boost etc….
O.E.M. manufactured ECU’s – The ECU’s are built by an O.E. manufacturer, so all ecu are 100% tested for vibration, temperature, loading etc… BEFORE you install them into your vehicle. Pro EFI ECU’s are as reliable as the factory units you take out. No more being stranded on the side of the road, or waiting weeks or months to get and issue repaired with the confidence of rolling the dice.
Drive by wire capability!!
Nitrous control:
Up to 4 stages!!
Control by speed, time, gear etc.....
Just enter the number of jets, jet size and target a/f and it does the rest!!
Add a nitrous bottle pressure sensor and it adjusts accordingly to pressure!!
Unlike other ECU's, you can target different a/fs for Nitrous with this unit in closed loop, or open loop, since the computer is based soley on V.E. it doesn't rely on the O2 sensor for hitting the desired a/f ratio. It does this based upon volumetric efficiency and desired equivelency ratio. Therefore there is less work for the O2 to do in closed loop, eliminating the chance for lean spikes typical of running nitrous!!!!
Fuel pressure compensation:
With the simple addition of a fuel pressure sensor, the computer will monitor and compensate for various fuel pressure. Lets say that you have a pump that is tired and your fuel pressure is not rising 1-1 any more. The computer will know and add neccessary fuel. Also if the pressure really gets unstable causing the computer to add too much pulse width, it will trigger a check engine light. It can also be set to initiate fuel cut, turn off the boost control, shut off NOS and lower the rev limiter. These safe guards can be triggered by the fuel pressure alone, by O2 activity or a number of other things!!
Boost Control Strategies:
Will be able to utilize dual solenoids to control pressure to both the top and bottom ports on any wastegate. This will give you VERY accurate control!!
Will be able to control boost by speed.
Will be able to control boost by time. Therefore if you spin the tires, and the vehicle speed sensor puts the boost map into a zone for higher boost.... the computer will know that it is wrong and hold the boost down until a certain amount of time.
Will control boost based on traction control. Traction control will be based on wheel speed differential!!
This computer will also know what gear you are in by simply entering gear ratios from the service manual, rear end ratio and tire size!!
Lean condition safety features:
In the case of a lean condition under certain circumstances (IE load, time etc) the computer can be programmed to shut down nitrous, lower boost, initiate fuel cut, initiate a rev limiter for a programmed duration of time until safe conditions return. This can also then be programmed to throw a code and activate the check engine light.
Misfire detection:
No more guessing if you have a misfire. This computer will tell you which cylinder and how often it misfires!! Think about how valuable this will be!! You will know instantly when it is time for new plugs.... or a coil pack is going bad....etc!!
20 channel thermocouple capability:
Yep..... 20 channel!! Put one in every runner..... downpipe..... anywhere you can think of!! This is critical in tuning an engine to run exactly the same on every cylinder!!!
32x32 vs 12x12 maps
16 Coil Drivers - Yes 16!!! No more waste spark!!
32 Analog inputs!!! - There are 32 analog inputs which will be preconfigured for anything you want to do... I.E. plug in a fuel pressure sensor and it automatically activates the trims associated with it. Put a Nitrous pressure sensor on your car and the computer trims fuel accordingly to bottle pressure!! You can datalog everything imaginable!!
10 Low side driver outputs - You can configure these to do whatever you can imagine. Also these will all support 4+ amps each!!
Built in wideband!! - That says it all!!
True volumetric efficeincy - So things like injector and pressure changes don’t have to be calculated and multiple maps changed, it’s all done in the background by simply entering your injector size and base fuel pressure. Actually knowing the injector size and fuel pressure, this allows us to make instantanious feedback changes to things like fuel pressure not staying constant, without relying on the O2 sensor for delayed information. Changing fuel type is as simple as entering the stoichiametric ratio for the fuel used.
Fault coding – Check engine light will tell you fault codes to help diagnose problems. Actions can be assigned with the fault codes. I.E. low oil pressure triggers a fault code, and activates a low rpm limiter. O2 sensor faults will automatically turn off block learning and closed loop feedback. Also the fault codes will be the same as the original ECU!!!
Traction control – multiple comprehensive traction control strategies including defined wheel speed differential between driven and non-driven wheels.
True knock sensing capability with specific knock frequency detection based upon the specific engine being monitored. (See youtube video above)
Multiple failsafe conditions making it nearly impossible to damage your engine in the case of tuning errors or mechanical malfunctions. I.E. lean, and knock conditions can be used to turn off nitrous, shut down boost etc….
O.E.M. manufactured ECU’s – The ECU’s are built by an O.E. manufacturer, so all ecu are 100% tested for vibration, temperature, loading etc… BEFORE you install them into your vehicle. Pro EFI ECU’s are as reliable as the factory units you take out. No more being stranded on the side of the road, or waiting weeks or months to get and issue repaired with the confidence of rolling the dice.
Drive by wire capability!!
Nitrous control:
Up to 4 stages!!
Control by speed, time, gear etc.....
Just enter the number of jets, jet size and target a/f and it does the rest!!
Add a nitrous bottle pressure sensor and it adjusts accordingly to pressure!!
Unlike other ECU's, you can target different a/fs for Nitrous with this unit in closed loop, or open loop, since the computer is based soley on V.E. it doesn't rely on the O2 sensor for hitting the desired a/f ratio. It does this based upon volumetric efficiency and desired equivelency ratio. Therefore there is less work for the O2 to do in closed loop, eliminating the chance for lean spikes typical of running nitrous!!!!
Fuel pressure compensation:
With the simple addition of a fuel pressure sensor, the computer will monitor and compensate for various fuel pressure. Lets say that you have a pump that is tired and your fuel pressure is not rising 1-1 any more. The computer will know and add neccessary fuel. Also if the pressure really gets unstable causing the computer to add too much pulse width, it will trigger a check engine light. It can also be set to initiate fuel cut, turn off the boost control, shut off NOS and lower the rev limiter. These safe guards can be triggered by the fuel pressure alone, by O2 activity or a number of other things!!
Boost Control Strategies:
Will be able to utilize dual solenoids to control pressure to both the top and bottom ports on any wastegate. This will give you VERY accurate control!!
Will be able to control boost by speed.
Will be able to control boost by time. Therefore if you spin the tires, and the vehicle speed sensor puts the boost map into a zone for higher boost.... the computer will know that it is wrong and hold the boost down until a certain amount of time.
Will control boost based on traction control. Traction control will be based on wheel speed differential!!
This computer will also know what gear you are in by simply entering gear ratios from the service manual, rear end ratio and tire size!!
Lean condition safety features:
In the case of a lean condition under certain circumstances (IE load, time etc) the computer can be programmed to shut down nitrous, lower boost, initiate fuel cut, initiate a rev limiter for a programmed duration of time until safe conditions return. This can also then be programmed to throw a code and activate the check engine light.
Misfire detection:
No more guessing if you have a misfire. This computer will tell you which cylinder and how often it misfires!! Think about how valuable this will be!! You will know instantly when it is time for new plugs.... or a coil pack is going bad....etc!!
20 channel thermocouple capability:
Yep..... 20 channel!! Put one in every runner..... downpipe..... anywhere you can think of!! This is critical in tuning an engine to run exactly the same on every cylinder!!!
32x32 vs 12x12 maps
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04-22-2011, 02:12 PM
#68
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"This is something I never really posted about and I have no idea why. The ProEFI's launch control is hands down the best I have used. My biggest gripe with previous systems like the AEM was the fact that I had to sit on the Anti-lag/2-step for just the right amount of time for fear of bogging off the line or overboosting and spinning myself to a 2.2 second 60' time.
With the ProEFI's buil-in launch control that is integrated with iBoost, your tuner selects the target boost level desired and you hit it every time!! No more worrying about having to time yourself perfectly to get that good launch, the ProEFI does it all for you. I first realized this at my first outing onto the drag strip since swapping to the ProEFI and I can honestly say that there is a HUGE difference between this and other systems.
Not only is the target boost always seen, but it gets there MUCH FASTER!! When I ran my 10.63 1/4mi pass, my friend asked why I was on the anti-lag so long. My response was "Because that's how long I needed to be with the AEM!!" Nothing shows the quality of an engine management system like real world experience." -Reid Sound Performance
EDIT: Cost for the 48 is $799, Harness is like $400 ish. I got my ecu for $780 though.
With the ProEFI's buil-in launch control that is integrated with iBoost, your tuner selects the target boost level desired and you hit it every time!! No more worrying about having to time yourself perfectly to get that good launch, the ProEFI does it all for you. I first realized this at my first outing onto the drag strip since swapping to the ProEFI and I can honestly say that there is a HUGE difference between this and other systems.
Not only is the target boost always seen, but it gets there MUCH FASTER!! When I ran my 10.63 1/4mi pass, my friend asked why I was on the anti-lag so long. My response was "Because that's how long I needed to be with the AEM!!" Nothing shows the quality of an engine management system like real world experience." -Reid Sound Performance
EDIT: Cost for the 48 is $799, Harness is like $400 ish. I got my ecu for $780 though.
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04-22-2011, 02:12 PM
#69
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The ecu can do things!!!!
and i love exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and i love exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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04-22-2011, 02:22 PM
#73
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I'm just being a hater.
my MS3 has antilag and 3 stage launch control. I have yet to play with it, i need to refit my test pipe before I do. But then again I don't find myself dragging the miata too often.
my MS3 has antilag and 3 stage launch control. I have yet to play with it, i need to refit my test pipe before I do. But then again I don't find myself dragging the miata too often.
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04-22-2011, 02:22 PM
#74
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Do you need 12 injector drivers?
Do you need 16 coil drivers?
Do you need 32 analog inputs?
You def don't need 32x32 maps, 16x16 are almost overkill for a 30psi setup.
Do you need 20 thermocouples?
10 driver outputs - the MS3 has more
Built in wideband - I prefer the Innovate anyway
VE - Both the MS2 and the MS3 have that
Traction control - MS3 has it
Failsafes - the MS3 has them (ie running leaner than the target AFR table, running hotter EGTs under boost than the defined limits etc)
Drive by wire - do you need it?
Nitrous - the MS2/MS3 support up to two stages - will you even use 1 stage?
Speed/gear detection: The MS3 does it
Boost control: Let me know if you are going to use all these features. Sure they are cool and all, but who is going to dial them in and how much is he going to charge for it?
Btw all the features you mentioned (16+12+10+30+20) require 88 pins (not including power, grounds, etc) - I don't see that many pins on that ECU photo you posted.
Do you need 16 coil drivers?
Do you need 32 analog inputs?
You def don't need 32x32 maps, 16x16 are almost overkill for a 30psi setup.
Do you need 20 thermocouples?
10 driver outputs - the MS3 has more
Built in wideband - I prefer the Innovate anyway
VE - Both the MS2 and the MS3 have that
Traction control - MS3 has it
Failsafes - the MS3 has them (ie running leaner than the target AFR table, running hotter EGTs under boost than the defined limits etc)
Drive by wire - do you need it?
Nitrous - the MS2/MS3 support up to two stages - will you even use 1 stage?
Speed/gear detection: The MS3 does it
Boost control: Let me know if you are going to use all these features. Sure they are cool and all, but who is going to dial them in and how much is he going to charge for it?
Btw all the features you mentioned (16+12+10+30+20) require 88 pins (not including power, grounds, etc) - I don't see that many pins on that ECU photo you posted.
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04-22-2011, 02:23 PM
#75
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so I can set it up to be boosting after say you let off the gas going into a corner? that way it will hold like half a bar of boost when I'm off gas though the corner until I get back on it again coming out
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04-22-2011, 02:26 PM
#76
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Do you need 12 injector drivers?
Do you need 16 coil drivers?
Do you need 32 analog inputs?
You def don't need 32x32 maps, 16x16 are almost overkill for a 30psi setup.
Do you need 20 thermocouples?
10 driver outputs - the MS3 has more
Built in wideband - I prefer the Innovate anyway
VE - Both the MS2 and the MS3 have that
Traction control - MS3 has it
Failsafes - the MS3 has them (ie running leaner than the target AFR table, running hotter EGTs under boost than the defined limits etc)
Drive by wire - do you need it?
Nitrous - the MS2/MS3 support up to two stages - will you even use 1 stage?
Speed/gear detection: The MS3 does it
Boost control: Let me know if you are going to use all these features. Sure they are cool and all, but who is going to dial them in and how much is he going to charge for it?
Btw all the features you mentioned (16+12+10+30+20) require 88 pins (not including power, grounds, etc) - I don't see that many pins on that ECU photo you posted.
Do you need 16 coil drivers?
Do you need 32 analog inputs?
You def don't need 32x32 maps, 16x16 are almost overkill for a 30psi setup.
Do you need 20 thermocouples?
10 driver outputs - the MS3 has more
Built in wideband - I prefer the Innovate anyway
VE - Both the MS2 and the MS3 have that
Traction control - MS3 has it
Failsafes - the MS3 has them (ie running leaner than the target AFR table, running hotter EGTs under boost than the defined limits etc)
Drive by wire - do you need it?
Nitrous - the MS2/MS3 support up to two stages - will you even use 1 stage?
Speed/gear detection: The MS3 does it
Boost control: Let me know if you are going to use all these features. Sure they are cool and all, but who is going to dial them in and how much is he going to charge for it?
Btw all the features you mentioned (16+12+10+30+20) require 88 pins (not including power, grounds, etc) - I don't see that many pins on that ECU photo you posted.
$800 is what it's going to cost me to fully tune my car and that's flat rate.
Last edited by jtothawhat; 04-22-2011 at 02:36 PM.
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04-22-2011, 02:41 PM
#79
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That's irreverent, I want the best there is. No need to hate on my decision plus I can always swap out the box and all it's components if I ever decide to get another toy. Do I think the cold start up on 1600 cc injectors with E85 on a 10 degree day in Chicago will be the same on a MS and on a proEFI, hell no.
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