MSM, ARTech, Reverant, MOAR BOOST!
09-15-2013, 08:20 PM
#103
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about time
So life happened. as it always does, and this project was put on hold for awhile. I have another car to drive as a daily now so the Miata was just put on the back burner. But it is up and running.
This project was a pretty big learning curve for me but it was all figured out with a few costly speed-bumps. And obviously still have plenty to learn. I had the car running in April, and it seemed to be running fine. for about 200 miles. And then the turbo started making a noise. This was my first turbo build, obviously, and I did not know that the oil feed had to be perfectly vertical. It was close, but the oil feed was probably at a 15 degree angle, which caused the bearing to go bad pretty quickly. After that happened, 1 I knew it was going to be a costly mistake. 2. learning with your wallet is never fun. and 3. I pretty much lost all motivation at that point.I knew it was going to take awhile to save up money for another turbo, and I had another car to drive so I just kind of stopped messing with it for a few months.
After weeks of getting **** from everyone I knew, I decided to get the fire back under my butt and start working on it again.
A local guy that I know had a 240 and was running a Garrett GT2871r and decided he wanted to go V8 instead of the turbo route. So I acquired his turbo. It was only about one year old and it only saw maybe 15 events. It had no shaft play and its working very well so far. (with the oil feed directly on top, and the oil drain going straight down
)
I am only running my wastegate pressure and I only have a 9psi spring in, but its pretty peppy so far.
I have run autotune on it for roughly 2-3 hours total and it seems to be doing really well. Im holding anywhere 11.3-11.7 afr under full boost. so Im pretty happy with that so far. It feels pretty smooth and revs pretty well all the way to red line. And at a cruise Im floating anywhere from 14.2-15.0.
There are a few hiccups in the tune, but I assume that is normal, and with time on autotune it will smooth out. Its nothing too bad but while Im cruising it will randomly hiccup. Not too often, but at least once ever time I drive it. I am planning to continue autotuning for the rest of this month and then next month I am going to take it to a dyno to have them tweak it a little more if it is still not smoothed out. Plus I am curious to see what kind of power Im putting out; so I am taking it to the dyno for that reason alone. And it will just depend on how good my tune is at that point as to whether I have them tweak it or just pay for some time.
Here is my current fuel map. Like I said I havnt been too crazy with it and I still have been going relatively conservative because the clutch is still new, but I feel it will be looking good after awhile.
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psf27ecfea.png
Also, when I am idleing, my RPMs will randomly go down to about 300 and then jump up to about 2k. (about a 15 second process) and then it will drop back down to normal. It will do it with the AC on or with the AC off, and as far as I can tell it is random. I will attempt to get a data log of that soon, but in the meantime what could the culprit be? A small vaccuum leak maybe?
I also (finally) got my 6uls in the mail last week after ordering them in March! ... -_-
I dont really care that much because the car wasnt running for most of that time so it really is not a big deal at all. AND I just got my 225/45/15 BFG Rivals mounted on my 15x9 6uls today!
I have only driven on them for about 8 miles though and they are brand new so I dont have anything to say for them yet, except for how sexy they are on the car.
I have an event mid october so I will be able to say how they feel after that. Im curious to see how much different the car is now. I had crappy falken tires that were kind of bald on it for the last season. It was hard to keep control of the car just because of that with the stock turbo.
old vs new
This project was a pretty big learning curve for me but it was all figured out with a few costly speed-bumps. And obviously still have plenty to learn. I had the car running in April, and it seemed to be running fine. for about 200 miles. And then the turbo started making a noise. This was my first turbo build, obviously, and I did not know that the oil feed had to be perfectly vertical. It was close, but the oil feed was probably at a 15 degree angle, which caused the bearing to go bad pretty quickly. After that happened, 1 I knew it was going to be a costly mistake. 2. learning with your wallet is never fun. and 3. I pretty much lost all motivation at that point.I knew it was going to take awhile to save up money for another turbo, and I had another car to drive so I just kind of stopped messing with it for a few months.
After weeks of getting **** from everyone I knew, I decided to get the fire back under my butt and start working on it again.
A local guy that I know had a 240 and was running a Garrett GT2871r and decided he wanted to go V8 instead of the turbo route. So I acquired his turbo. It was only about one year old and it only saw maybe 15 events. It had no shaft play and its working very well so far. (with the oil feed directly on top, and the oil drain going straight down
)I am only running my wastegate pressure and I only have a 9psi spring in, but its pretty peppy so far.
I have run autotune on it for roughly 2-3 hours total and it seems to be doing really well. Im holding anywhere 11.3-11.7 afr under full boost. so Im pretty happy with that so far. It feels pretty smooth and revs pretty well all the way to red line. And at a cruise Im floating anywhere from 14.2-15.0.
There are a few hiccups in the tune, but I assume that is normal, and with time on autotune it will smooth out. Its nothing too bad but while Im cruising it will randomly hiccup. Not too often, but at least once ever time I drive it. I am planning to continue autotuning for the rest of this month and then next month I am going to take it to a dyno to have them tweak it a little more if it is still not smoothed out. Plus I am curious to see what kind of power Im putting out; so I am taking it to the dyno for that reason alone. And it will just depend on how good my tune is at that point as to whether I have them tweak it or just pay for some time.
Here is my current fuel map. Like I said I havnt been too crazy with it and I still have been going relatively conservative because the clutch is still new, but I feel it will be looking good after awhile.
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psf27ecfea.png
Also, when I am idleing, my RPMs will randomly go down to about 300 and then jump up to about 2k. (about a 15 second process) and then it will drop back down to normal. It will do it with the AC on or with the AC off, and as far as I can tell it is random. I will attempt to get a data log of that soon, but in the meantime what could the culprit be? A small vaccuum leak maybe?
I also (finally) got my 6uls in the mail last week after ordering them in March! ... -_-
I dont really care that much because the car wasnt running for most of that time so it really is not a big deal at all. AND I just got my 225/45/15 BFG Rivals mounted on my 15x9 6uls today!
I have only driven on them for about 8 miles though and they are brand new so I dont have anything to say for them yet, except for how sexy they are on the car.
I have an event mid october so I will be able to say how they feel after that. Im curious to see how much different the car is now. I had crappy falken tires that were kind of bald on it for the last season. It was hard to keep control of the car just because of that with the stock turbo.
old vs new
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09-16-2013, 01:55 PM
#105
Yeah the fuel map looks like it has some odd peaks. I find it's a lot easier to see them in the 3d view.
For instance the 98 and 95 values in the 1,000 rpm column come out of nowhere. They have a 71 underneath and a 87 above.. I would smooth them out.
5,000 rpm column has a 102 value around 90's.
If you rough out those areas manually it'll save some autotuning time.
For instance the 98 and 95 values in the 1,000 rpm column come out of nowhere. They have a 71 underneath and a 87 above.. I would smooth them out.
5,000 rpm column has a 102 value around 90's.
If you rough out those areas manually it'll save some autotuning time.
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10-27-2013, 01:57 AM
#108
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update
So I had my first autocross event last weekend on my new set up, and it rained. So I still didn’t get the best feel for it but I still was able to get the FTD until the last few runs (as the track was drying out). But I plan on getting much better in this car. It was pretty challenging trying to keep control of this thing in the rain when all I wanted to do was put my foot down. But I feel like I handled it decent for its first time out. This little car is a blast to drive. It is certainly very quick.
^last run of the day, third fastest time for me for the day.
^this was my fastest lap. I feel like it was pretty good. Especially for it being wet out. (skip to 1 minute in)
Overall the BFgoodrich Rivals rock. My old tires were Falken 612s and they were terrible on warm dry pavement, and even worse in the rain. These tires in the rain were leaps and bounds better than the falkens without rain. It was my first event on the new turbo set up, so I was more focused on controlling all that power rather than just paying attention to the new tires, but overall I am very happy with everything. The course was not too demanding on the tires, it was basically a figure 8 and the crossovers were pretty straight, so it didn’t ask too terribly much from the tires. But from what I felt, it felt very good.
Overall everything is running well. I got it on the dyno a couple weeks ago and it made 217 to the wheels and about 185 ft lbs torque. The guys printer was not working so I just had to snap a picture of the dyno sheet. When I got there he did a pull to see what power it made before anything was changed, and it made 184. This was my first experience on a dyno and it was definitely cool. I enjoyed all 5 hours!! haha once he got the power output where he was comfortable with it we both got in the car and just drove through the gears and tuned as needed. Anyone in the panhandle area, I highly recommend Johnny up at Adams automotive. Hes a really nice guy and he is very knowledgeable.
Here is what my current fuel and spark map look like (2d and 3d) after a few hours on the dyno with Johnny
this is just a short video to give a feel for what it sounds like. I took this for abe because he was curious and he was very pleased with how it sounds. As am i.
The only concerns I have at this point, which is a relatively minor one is that megaquirt thinks I am running 14 psi when Im only running wastegate pressure (9psi). Its tuned to give me the correct fuel at 9psi and it is still running fine so Im not too worried about it right this second, but I definitely need to figure that out. I have been in contact with Rev via email so Im attempting to have him help me figure it out but any other insight would definitely help.
Also another concern, is sometimes when I’m at full boost and high rpms my cel will come on. It goes away pretty much as soon as I get off the throttle. “3. Knocking if the knock sensor picks up enough knock that the ignition is retarded more than 1.5*, the cel is activated” I assume this is why my cel comes on. But honestly, I am not really sure what that exactly means. I don’t feel anything different when Im in boost and the cel comes on, and I don’t hear anything either. Im not sure if I would hear or feel anything if I was getting knock, but I don’t.
Total side note, I have redline gear oil in my tranny now, and the shift into 3rd is MUCH smoother now than it was before. It still grinds a bit at higher rpms but no where close to what it was, and driving on the street I barely notice it now. So I am thoroughly happy with that.
I saw my old bitch on the road not too long ago while I was with my new one. I want it back.
Overall the BFgoodrich Rivals rock. My old tires were Falken 612s and they were terrible on warm dry pavement, and even worse in the rain. These tires in the rain were leaps and bounds better than the falkens without rain. It was my first event on the new turbo set up, so I was more focused on controlling all that power rather than just paying attention to the new tires, but overall I am very happy with everything. The course was not too demanding on the tires, it was basically a figure 8 and the crossovers were pretty straight, so it didn’t ask too terribly much from the tires. But from what I felt, it felt very good.
Overall everything is running well. I got it on the dyno a couple weeks ago and it made 217 to the wheels and about 185 ft lbs torque. The guys printer was not working so I just had to snap a picture of the dyno sheet. When I got there he did a pull to see what power it made before anything was changed, and it made 184. This was my first experience on a dyno and it was definitely cool. I enjoyed all 5 hours!! haha once he got the power output where he was comfortable with it we both got in the car and just drove through the gears and tuned as needed. Anyone in the panhandle area, I highly recommend Johnny up at Adams automotive. Hes a really nice guy and he is very knowledgeable.
Here is what my current fuel and spark map look like (2d and 3d) after a few hours on the dyno with Johnny
The only concerns I have at this point, which is a relatively minor one is that megaquirt thinks I am running 14 psi when Im only running wastegate pressure (9psi). Its tuned to give me the correct fuel at 9psi and it is still running fine so Im not too worried about it right this second, but I definitely need to figure that out. I have been in contact with Rev via email so Im attempting to have him help me figure it out but any other insight would definitely help.
Also another concern, is sometimes when I’m at full boost and high rpms my cel will come on. It goes away pretty much as soon as I get off the throttle. “3. Knocking if the knock sensor picks up enough knock that the ignition is retarded more than 1.5*, the cel is activated” I assume this is why my cel comes on. But honestly, I am not really sure what that exactly means. I don’t feel anything different when Im in boost and the cel comes on, and I don’t hear anything either. Im not sure if I would hear or feel anything if I was getting knock, but I don’t.
Total side note, I have redline gear oil in my tranny now, and the shift into 3rd is MUCH smoother now than it was before. It still grinds a bit at higher rpms but no where close to what it was, and driving on the street I barely notice it now. So I am thoroughly happy with that.
I saw my old bitch on the road not too long ago while I was with my new one. I want it back.
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10-27-2013, 05:12 PM
#111
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I am not on e85. im on 93 octane pump gas using gumout octane booster. is that ignition map too aggressive? and if so, how would i go about resolving that? Johnny changed it after he smoothed out the fuel map a bit.
Will it hurt anything driving out of boost without changing anything for right now?
and as far as i know, megasquirt creates a restore point for every fuel map whenever there are any changes. Does it do the same thing for the ignition map?
Will it hurt anything driving out of boost without changing anything for right now?
and as far as i know, megasquirt creates a restore point for every fuel map whenever there are any changes. Does it do the same thing for the ignition map?
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10-27-2013, 06:47 PM
#112
IMO that tune sucks and needs lots of work still. At lest looks that way based on those screen shots. Would need logs to tell for sure. Also over 30* past 100kpa and doesn't even drop off til over 200kpa is just asking for trouble.
I hope the guy didn't charge you anything for the "tune"
I hope the guy didn't charge you anything for the "tune"
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11-05-2014, 08:12 PM
#115
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slow
So life happened again.
Its been about a year and its been running great for the whole year. Nothing major. I love it. Its quick, it sticks...it just doesn't brake. too much power, too little brake.
But thats about to change! Is it Christmas? That table looks better than Christmas.
A lot has happened in the last year. Ive got about 10 autox events on the car and I get better each event. Ive been in the grouping of FTD for almost all of the events, and I even got it once. By the end of next year, I want to to be in the running for FTD at every event I go to. I feel like I can do that, and thats a good goal for me to strive for.
I picked up a second car in the meantime, something that I can use to tow the miata if I need to or if Im going to an event far away. 2007 FJ Cruiser 4WD 6 speed manual. Things a tank, and it tows the miata pretty well.
It doesnt like deep, soft, thick mud too much though.
Packing the miata for events is like playing tetris. I can put a lot of stuff in a miata after years of practice.
But now Im just going to photobomb this page. in the past year I havnt done too much to the car. Ive gotten two new jobs in the course of the past 6 months (both in the correct direction) and now Ive got a little better income to fund this slow box.
In the past month I have picked up a hard top for 800 locally - which I thought was a decent price for being local to me - in good shape and already has tinted window. No defrost tho.
five dollar boot from ebay, looks WAY better than the old, beat up stock boot. Now i just need a new shifter ****.
Does anyone know an effective way to attach the bumper if both tabs that you screw in at the very edge of the bumper have broken off? My last event, my bumber broke off while I was driving. Only the bolts in front of the radiator kept it on. Someone said that it just flexed really bad and then popped off. I didnt hit anything. The course had a very hard right, then left turn at decent speed.
Password:JDM Quick Release Fasteners | Password JDM
I have ordered these but I am not too sure if I like how they will work. I will have to put holes in both the bumper and the fender. they will work, no doubt of that, but i dont think i like them. plus they dont really look clean. So Im not a huge fan. For that event i just used my tape as a bandaid just in case. didnt do that last event.
In the meantime I think it looks pretty aggressive without the bumper. I like it, just dont think its street legal.
I am looking to get a racing seat soon, and Ive done a little bit of reading and as of now I think the sparco sprint 5 is probably a top candidate.
That is how it sits now. Minus the radiator. It died 1 event ago. I borrowed a Mishimoto rad for my last event but a new one is in my near future.
Just look at how stupid this thing is. Haha I just love it.
Overall I am extrememly pleased with this setup. It spools quick and it pulls hard. All the power transfers to the pavement pretty nicely.
I have ordered new gears from Miataroadster as part of the group buy so I am excited to get those in the next 6 months??? Im definitely okay in waiting for a good product though. My gears right now are so short. I am in third gear in almost every event...and first is a joke. In autoX and on the street. 4.1 plus 6 speed means a 5 speed, because first gear shouldnt count. But it does launch pretty freaking fast. haha
I am also planning on getting a longblock built by trackspeed engineering sometime early next year. I was planning on doing it now instead of brakes and suspension, but once I have all that extra power I want everything else to be able to handle it.
Right now on my list of things to get: (not really in any specific order)
-Short shifter
-Radiator
-Oil Catch can to pair with the stock one
-Oil cooler
-Racing seat
-5 point harness
-Steering Wheel with a quick release
-FM VMaxx XXtreme Stage 2 - street
-Frame rails
-Frog arms
-in door bar to pair with a roll bar
Then when I do the motor, Ill also do a stronger clutch, bigger fuel pump, and a manual boost controller.
At that point I wont really know what else to do. Then it will be a matter of just keeping everything in good shape and fixing what breaks. But I think I will have a pretty reliable set up. Ill definitely want to get someone to tune it once I get the new motor in. And I am down to travel up to probably 6 hours away to meet someone to get a good tune.
But anyways, thats whats been up in the life of this slow miata.
Its been about a year and its been running great for the whole year. Nothing major. I love it. Its quick, it sticks...it just doesn't brake. too much power, too little brake.
But thats about to change! Is it Christmas? That table looks better than Christmas.
A lot has happened in the last year. Ive got about 10 autox events on the car and I get better each event. Ive been in the grouping of FTD for almost all of the events, and I even got it once. By the end of next year, I want to to be in the running for FTD at every event I go to. I feel like I can do that, and thats a good goal for me to strive for.
I picked up a second car in the meantime, something that I can use to tow the miata if I need to or if Im going to an event far away. 2007 FJ Cruiser 4WD 6 speed manual. Things a tank, and it tows the miata pretty well.
It doesnt like deep, soft, thick mud too much though.
Packing the miata for events is like playing tetris. I can put a lot of stuff in a miata after years of practice.
But now Im just going to photobomb this page. in the past year I havnt done too much to the car. Ive gotten two new jobs in the course of the past 6 months (both in the correct direction) and now Ive got a little better income to fund this slow box.
In the past month I have picked up a hard top for 800 locally - which I thought was a decent price for being local to me - in good shape and already has tinted window. No defrost tho.
five dollar boot from ebay, looks WAY better than the old, beat up stock boot. Now i just need a new shifter ****.
Does anyone know an effective way to attach the bumper if both tabs that you screw in at the very edge of the bumper have broken off? My last event, my bumber broke off while I was driving. Only the bolts in front of the radiator kept it on. Someone said that it just flexed really bad and then popped off. I didnt hit anything. The course had a very hard right, then left turn at decent speed.
Password:JDM Quick Release Fasteners | Password JDM
I have ordered these but I am not too sure if I like how they will work. I will have to put holes in both the bumper and the fender. they will work, no doubt of that, but i dont think i like them. plus they dont really look clean. So Im not a huge fan. For that event i just used my tape as a bandaid just in case. didnt do that last event.
In the meantime I think it looks pretty aggressive without the bumper. I like it, just dont think its street legal.
I am looking to get a racing seat soon, and Ive done a little bit of reading and as of now I think the sparco sprint 5 is probably a top candidate.
That is how it sits now. Minus the radiator. It died 1 event ago. I borrowed a Mishimoto rad for my last event but a new one is in my near future.
Just look at how stupid this thing is. Haha I just love it.
Overall I am extrememly pleased with this setup. It spools quick and it pulls hard. All the power transfers to the pavement pretty nicely.
I have ordered new gears from Miataroadster as part of the group buy so I am excited to get those in the next 6 months??? Im definitely okay in waiting for a good product though. My gears right now are so short. I am in third gear in almost every event...and first is a joke. In autoX and on the street. 4.1 plus 6 speed means a 5 speed, because first gear shouldnt count. But it does launch pretty freaking fast. haha
I am also planning on getting a longblock built by trackspeed engineering sometime early next year. I was planning on doing it now instead of brakes and suspension, but once I have all that extra power I want everything else to be able to handle it.
Right now on my list of things to get: (not really in any specific order)
-Short shifter
-Radiator
-Oil Catch can to pair with the stock one
-Oil cooler
-Racing seat
-5 point harness
-Steering Wheel with a quick release
-FM VMaxx XXtreme Stage 2 - street
-Frame rails
-Frog arms
-in door bar to pair with a roll bar
Then when I do the motor, Ill also do a stronger clutch, bigger fuel pump, and a manual boost controller.
At that point I wont really know what else to do. Then it will be a matter of just keeping everything in good shape and fixing what breaks. But I think I will have a pretty reliable set up. Ill definitely want to get someone to tune it once I get the new motor in. And I am down to travel up to probably 6 hours away to meet someone to get a good tune.
But anyways, thats whats been up in the life of this slow miata.
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11-05-2014, 09:52 PM
#117
Cpt. Slow
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Set your bar higher than the FM VMaxx. Are you on stock suspension? I wouldn't expect Vmaxx to be that much better than MSM Bilsteins. Contact Turbofan, he might have a Sparco Sprint seat he's looking to get rid of. Do your ***** a favor and upgrade your harness to a 6-point. And I'm not sure I'd waste my money on the frog arms...
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11-05-2014, 10:20 PM
#118
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Couple of things based of your above list:
Set your bar higher than the FM VMaxx. Are you on stock suspension? I wouldn't expect Vmaxx to be that much better than MSM Bilsteins. Contact Turbofan, he might have a Sparco Sprint seat he's looking to get rid of. Do your ***** a favor and upgrade your harness to a 6-point. And I'm not sure I'd waste my money on the frog arms...
Set your bar higher than the FM VMaxx. Are you on stock suspension? I wouldn't expect Vmaxx to be that much better than MSM Bilsteins. Contact Turbofan, he might have a Sparco Sprint seat he's looking to get rid of. Do your ***** a favor and upgrade your harness to a 6-point. And I'm not sure I'd waste my money on the frog arms...
And good to know about the Frog Arms. Ive read decent stuff about them though. Maybe placebo...I'll do a little more digging.
I am excited about these new brakes though. The stock brakes were having issues getting me slowed down.
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11-06-2014, 02:45 AM
#119
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I do have a Sparco Sprint V, and I'd like to get rid of it because I hate it, but it probably isn't going anywhere for a while. At least not shipped, anyway. I don't wanna box it up.
Before you buy one, sit in it for a while. It sure made me not want it but some people are super happy with theirs.
I guess if I sell mine then I have an excuse to buy another driver seat and move my POS NRG to the passenger side...
Before you buy one, sit in it for a while. It sure made me not want it but some people are super happy with theirs.
I guess if I sell mine then I have an excuse to buy another driver seat and move my POS NRG to the passenger side...
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11-06-2014, 10:54 AM
#120
Cpt. Slow
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,175
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Bring it to UPS. They were super nice with my MSM partout, and I stood there at the counter with giant front lips, seats, suspension, you name it. And they figured a way to box it up, very helpful. Got a 10% off for frequent shipping for that too.
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