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Old 07-27-2015, 07:35 PM   #1701
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Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
Lots of scuttlebutt about the T6 not being "as good as it used to be" so we'll see.
link?
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:35 PM   #1702
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let's see that blackstone report
Also if you are referring to the old motors, wouldn't an actual teardown and inspection/measuring of the actual bearings be better than an oil report to determine bearing wear?
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:36 PM   #1703
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No because you have a billion different reasons for a billion different things and your results are all over the place. They're more like opinions than results because there's like no documentation or real data. No offense, of course. But when people post up reports with data and results it's easier to draw conclusions, than to just say "well I pulled the engine and it had bearing wear". Did you run the one exclusively on castrol all of it's lifetime, and the others on t6 exlusively? And before any of them ever blew up, you tore them apart?

Its getting so difficult to find real, proper, data to make really important conclusions from cause you got 7 billion people on the internet saying 7 billion different things, and about 6.9 billion are just bs'ing or drawing conclusions from opinions or guesses and calling them facts.

It bothers me cause it took me months of research to settle on T6 for the miata, and if you're gonna say it's inferior to castrol I'm gonna wanna see test results/lab data.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:42 PM   #1704
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...

butt plugs: MiataRoadster magnetic oil drain plugs MAZDA - MiataRoadster - High-performance customer service...and parts for Roadsters

I ordered them the same time I ordered my shifter. I've got one for the trans and one for the diff as well. They are expensive as hell but really, really well made. Back in the day I found one with a magnet that Mazda sold for the diff and it also fit in the trans, but the magnets are nowhere near as powerful as the MR ones. They are very much cheaper though
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First, didn't know those drain plugs existed! Probably gonna get one for my motor.

...

WOW, those are crazy expensive! The last time I bought some, I got them from Gold Plug. They were only $10 a piece, but that was 3 years ago. They look like they've gone up since then, but still, they are cheaper, plus they go on sale 2 or 3 times a year and you can pick them up for 20% off or so. Gold Plug LLC ? Magnetic Drain Plugs
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:44 PM   #1705
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LOL it's 25 bucks. Better take out a loan.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:48 PM   #1706
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
12psi@1k and 40psi@3800 is not good
^^ Knows a shitload more than I do. What should we be seeing?

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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
link?
No link currently. Like you, I keep seeing these things repeated but no real data thus the scuttlebutt comment. The data is probably buried over on the BITOG forums, but I'm not smart enough dedicated enough to dig it out. I'm running T6 in the sooboouoo and it seems to be doing fine. Minimal consumption for a 150k EJ205 is hard to argue with.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:51 PM   #1707
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LOL it's 25 bucks. Better take out a loan.
If ima spend big bucks on a plug, it better be fancy


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Old 07-27-2015, 07:52 PM   #1708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
No because you have a billion different reasons for a billion different things and your results are all over the place. They're more like opinions than results because there's like no documentation or real data. No offense, of course. But when people post up reports with data and results it's easier to draw conclusions, than to just say "well I pulled the engine and it had bearing wear". Did you run the one exclusively on castrol all of it's lifetime, and the others on t6 exlusively? And before any of them ever blew up, you tore them apart?
I have posted this before, but I'll repost it/answer your questions. If you don't like/believe/are convinced that's fine, please ignore. I don't have a million dollars or know everything and test everything the best way possible, I'll admit that. But regardless if you think I'm right, I've actually broken **** trying to find the limits of parts and built a lot of things myself learning along the way. I'm certainly not a castrol GTX lobbyist trying to sell you something or make you believe something for my benefit.

Ran T6 on 2 different engines, both showed some bearing wear in the ROD BEARINGS ONLY reving to 8,000 on T6. Mains were always fine. It didn't destroy the bearings but it knocked through the top layer in the middle of each rod bearing.

Last motor I ran castrol GTX, ran more boost, and higher revs, and when it cracked a piston (same failure mode as previous motor BTW) the rod bearings were perfect. Mains were always the same, perfect.

Again, if you don't like my experience, and thing I'm wrong, that's fine.

I like Rotella, I've run it before. You said you like data, go look up the shear strength (whatever they call it for oils) of Rotella compared to Castrol GTX. The castrol is much higher shear than the Rotella. That's some data for you since real world results don't prove anything. Leafy knows a lot more about oils than I do, maybe he can chime in.

Rotella is good oil, but for high RPMs Castrol protects better regarding the bearings.

Also I agree with Sav, 40 PSI at 3,800 is low, I believe spec is around 50 ish.

I have an oil pressure senor installed I need to plug in but I can tell you whatever the OEM oil pressure switch is, my motor will hit that on the starter at 150 RPMs. Dunno what idle PSI is. I can say VVT doesn't work very well until 1,800 RPMs, so whatever oil PSI is required for VVT to work, I find that at 1,800 RPMs.

Again, sorry for posting data/experience and please ignore if it's not valid.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:55 PM   #1709
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You keep posting opinions disguised as facts, and when you get called on them you get super defensive like I'm attacking you. I'm not attacking you.

Back to our regular scheduled programming
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:57 PM   #1710
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
..

Its getting so difficult to find real, proper, data to make really important conclusions from cause you got 7 billion people on the internet saying 7 billion different things, and about 6.9 billion are just bs'ing or drawing conclusions from opinions or guesses and calling them facts.

It bothers me cause it took me months of research to settle on T6 for the miata, and if you're gonna say it's inferior to castrol I'm gonna wanna see test results/lab data.
I agree with you. I hate BS, I have to read through it trying to find the facts too just like everyone else.

I have actually measured bearing clearances, assembled, ran the engiens, and torn down engines and inspected the bearings myself using both oils I posted about. I posted what I found. This isn't internet hearsay, or what my friend did, it's actual experience. Same oil temps (stock oil setup so probably ****), same BP 1.8L , same fuel, same car. Castrol motor had higher revs, so in theory more stress on bottom end.

In fact if you'd like, I'll plastigauge the bearings from the old motor the next time I have it out and post those numbers too, along with pics. That's going to be a while, but when I have it out I'll do it. Old motors are long gone, nothing I can "prove" on those for you other than tell you what I saw when I tore them down.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:58 PM   #1711
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Back to our regular scheduled programming
More of me worrying about things and accomplishing nothing?
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:59 PM   #1712
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...following this discussion with GREAT interest.

I'm breaking in my new engine now and I'm seeing 40-45 psi when hot (~200F). Gonna be switching to "permanent" oil tomorrow. I've got 2 jugs of Rotella T6, and 2 jugs of Schaeffer 9000 and was planning on using the Schaeffer.

Now, I'm not so sure...
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:00 PM   #1713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
You keep posting opinions disguised as facts, and when you get called on them you get super defensive like I'm attacking you. I'm not attacking you.

Back to our regular scheduled programming
What opinion? That I ran castrol oil in my last motor and had less bearing wear? That's a fact. I did run that oil, and I did have no measurable/visable bearing wear.

I can't "prove" that castrol caused it, I'll agree. But the actual result happened, and something caused it. Since you doubt it was the oil, what do you think caused it?
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:02 PM   #1714
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I don't know. And that's the point. If you had a blackstone report I'd commend you and take your advice. But as it is we'll never know.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:08 PM   #1715
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I don't know. And that's the point. If you had a blackstone report I'd commend you and take your advice. But as it is we'll never know.
So a blackstone report showing high or low metals in the bearings would be definitive.

But tearing down an engine and inspecting/measuring bearing clearances is not?

Do you see why I think that's ridiculous? They both are used for the same thing, and one of them is even more definitive than the other. The purpose of the report is to give you an idea what's happening inside the motor so you don't have to tear it down to find out.

Again you said you like data, look up the data on both oils, Castrol has a higher shear (whatever it's called, again Leafy knows way more on oils than I do maybe he will chime in) and that higher shear is what stops metal on metal contact at high loading. That's real data that does exist, it's published and tested, you can look it up.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:11 PM   #1716
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Also I agree with Sav, 40 PSI at 3,800 is low, I believe spec is around 50 ish.
Neither agree nor disagree. It's an incomplete problem description and, therefore, a premature conclusion. We need oil temperature data to make this call. If the oil is really hot (like, turbo motor with no oil cooler in the Summer in Utah after extended high RPM running hot), then those numbers are darn good.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:11 PM   #1717
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check this out:
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
moar updates on this build

........

also found this interesting little fellow


there's something I don't see every day.
the rest look perfect.

On the bright side the heads are back from machine shop, and got "THE WORKS". They look amazing.
Pics of them soon.
from my very own thread here:
Hasser gehen zu hassen 8=>

Would you blame that on the oil?
Wanna know which one he was running?
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
So a blackstone report showing high or low metals in the bearings would be definitive.

But tearing down an engine and inspecting/measuring bearing clearances is not?

Do you see why I think that's ridiculous? They both are used for the same thing, and one of them is even more definitive than the other. The purpose of the report is to give you an idea what's happening inside the motor so you don't have to tear it down to find out.

Again you said you like data, look up the data on both oils, Castrol has a higher shear (whatever it's called, again Leafy knows way more on oils than I do maybe he will chime in) and that higher shear is what stops metal on metal contact at high loading. That's real data that does exist, it's published and tested, you can look it up.
so post it then?
And LOL @ referencing Leafy. I bet you 5 dollars that literally no one takes more than 1% of his posts seriously.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:13 PM   #1718
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I don't know. And that's the point. If you had a blackstone report I'd commend you and take your advice. But as it is we'll never know.
Last thought on this. If it wasn't the oil, what else could you change on an engine that would reduce bearing wear in the rod bearings? Assume I used the same bearings, clearances, rods, pistons, harmonic damper, and block. What else could it be?

I agree don't jump to conclusions, but I can't really think of an alternate explanation. Maybe more power would affect it, but the rods showed wear on both sides of the cap, not just the tops. That alone points to an oil/RPM problem. I guess since you don't know, and don't believe my explanation, surely you have at least one plausable second explanation? I'd love to hear it, cause you could be right and maybe it's not the oil. So far I can't think of anything.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:14 PM   #1719
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Neither agree nor disagree. It's an incomplete problem description and, therefore, a premature conclusion. We need oil temperature data to make this call. If the oil is really hot (like, turbo motor with no oil cooler in the Summer in Utah after extended high RPM running hot), then those numbers are darn good.
Correct, we absolutely should be discussing temp as well. Pisses me off to no end that my oil temp gauge **** itself on Sunday.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:17 PM   #1720
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Last thought on this. If it wasn't the oil, what else could you change on an engine that would reduce bearing wear in the rod bearings? Assume I used the same bearings, clearances, rods, pistons, harmonic damper, and block. What else could it be?

I agree don't jump to conclusions, but I can't really think of an alternate explanation. Maybe more power would affect it, but the rods showed wear on both sides of the cap, not just the tops. That alone points to an oil/RPM problem. I guess since you don't know, and don't believe my explanation, surely you have at least one plausable second explanation? I'd love to hear it, cause you could be right and maybe it's not the oil. So far I can't think of anything.
How about low oil?
How about poor oil pressure?
There are so many reasons. But I'm not gonna just throw them out like I know. That's why I don't like it when you draw conclusions like you do. It's also why I keep calling you out on telling people stuff like "I spun my engine to.............*insert some absurd high rpm*.........and it was fine* when the engine has been blown up long ago, and we don't REALLY know if it was fine or not. Etc.

Look at that picture of destroyed bearing I posted. Tell me what you think happened there.
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