Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-30-2016, 07:00 PM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,979
Total Cats: 128
Default Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build

This will be a compound setup for now, turbo in the rear of the car under the A/C condenser. May end up bypassing the supercharger once it spools, but not for now as that adds complexity for valves and crap. Also plan to just unhook the supercharger at some point just to see how it spools without the blower at all. Probably be extremely laggy without the SC helping it spool though.

Goal is to complete the entire setup for under 1,500 dollars. I'm around 1,100 in it so far and need to order some fuel system stuff.

Always wanted to try this for a long time, so doing it now since the Whipple by itself isn't fast enough and there isn't much I can do to really get a lot more out of it. With the SC after 20 PSI the SC is killing my power as Eric suggested more than once. So I'll be putting a bigger pulley on the SC so it only runs around 20 PSI, and the turbo will pickup the rest.

Air flow path will be:
Air filter, turbo, 2.25" pipe to the front, Whipple, Intercooler, Engine.

Turbo:
Ebay GT45, 68.7mm inducer, 97.8mm exducer, T4 Turbine 1.05 AR twin scroll.

Will be using engine oil to lube the turbo and a scavenger pump to push oil back to the motor. Ebay BOV/60mm wastegate. No intercooler on the turbo for now, gonna see how it does and go from there.

Not sure how much boost/power I'll run, going to get it built and run 5 PSI from the turbo at first. With compounding, that will be about 32 PSI at the motor once I put the 2.75" pulley back on the SC. Probably end up around 40-45 at the motor once the fuel system can keep up but who knows.

Hoping it hits full boost by 4,000-5,000 and rev it to 8,000 for a 3-4K powerband. Got a feeling it will be closer to 5,000 but we will see.

For those that will ask, I'm hoping this setup works ok, and I'll sell the EFR to help cover most of the cost of the compound build.

As for why? I've always wanted to try compounding, and always wanted to try an ebay turbo.

Not much to show, but the turbo showed up today!

EFR 7670, Garrett GT3271, and piston/rod for reference.









Attached Thumbnails
Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-20160130_163126_zps4cjeslsn.jpg   Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-20160130_163204_zps5gkyirie.jpg   Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-20160130_163214_zpsr6vwvaa8.jpg   Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-20160130_163235_zpsnppn5epc.jpg   Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-20160130_163324_zpskgxsxrr1.jpg  

patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 07:17 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: NorthWest NJ
Posts: 754
Total Cats: 28
Default

Well then....
x_25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 07:21 PM   #3
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: albion, mi
Posts: 266
Total Cats: 13
Default

In for soon to be sequentially-compounding turbo feeding supercharger running on c16. (I'd gather that the trans will shatter at take off at this point)

OOH, OR MAYBE YOU CAN USE THE QUICKTIME BELLHOUSING.........
glade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 07:25 PM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (17)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 2,613
Total Cats: 102
Default

This seems like a terrible idea to me, can't wait to see how it turns out. Keep us updated, I'd really like to see it actually work.
pdexta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 08:11 PM   #5
SadFab Sales Lady
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,859
Total Cats: 938
Default

Trans solution? Get a powerglide.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 08:29 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 193
Total Cats: 10
Default

Why a ebay turbo over something a little more proven but still cheap like a used turbo from PTEs site..normaly 6766s are on there rebuilt with a warranty for around $700. I also dont see a turbo of that size from ebay spooling on a 1.8L fully by 5,000 even with the supercharger helping it along.


You also have to remember on a turbo of that size 5 psi will mean absolutely nothing for power. For example on my 68mm turbo on my 2.5L motor it made only 580whp at 28psi..and from there finally woke up and stopped looking like a disappointment from 28psi on to 36 it was averaging 25ish whp per psi and what was with a nice billet wheel/race cover on a well tested and developed turbo.

I think you would see much better spool/response from a nice 62mm efr or a nice borg based unit like a bullseye.


On another note are you going to by pass the supercharger after a certain point or are you going to ram the air through the supercharger?
What are you going to be doing about fueling? I am struggling with my build fuel wise right now i do not want to spend $2-3k on a surge tank setup with a big external from fuel lab or other xx company like i did with my sti but i also do not want to shove two wally460s in the tank and just Y them together and pray that works :s.
Shortpersonbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 09:15 PM   #7
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,979
Total Cats: 128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Trans solution? Get a powerglide.
Not sure yet, I have 2 6 speeds though to think about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortpersonbk View Post
Why a ebay turbo over something a little more proven but still cheap like a used turbo from PTEs site..normaly 6766s are on there rebuilt with a warranty for around $700. I also dont see a turbo of that size from ebay spooling on a 1.8L fully by 5,000 even with the supercharger helping it along.


You also have to remember on a turbo of that size 5 psi will mean absolutely nothing for power. For example on my 68mm turbo on my 2.5L motor it made only 580whp at 28psi..and from there finally woke up and stopped looking like a disappointment from 28psi on to 36 it was averaging 25ish whp per psi and what was with a nice billet wheel/race cover on a well tested and developed turbo.

I think you would see much better spool/response from a nice 62mm efr or a nice borg based unit like a bullseye.


On another note are you going to by pass the supercharger after a certain point or are you going to ram the air through the supercharger?
What are you going to be doing about fueling? I am struggling with my build fuel wise right now i do not want to spend $2-3k on a surge tank setup with a big external from fuel lab or other xx company like i did with my sti but i also do not want to shove two wally460s in the tank and just Y them together and pray that works :s.
This turbo was 200 SHIPPED. Ebay special. Just want to see what I can do on a budget. I know it's cheap/crapy/why didn't you spend 5x more for something better. There is no sane reason to do this, it's for fun.

As for spool, don't know yet but target turbo boost will be 5 PSI from the turbo starting out. I think it will do that by 5K with the SC shoving 15-17 PSI into a 1.9L VVT motor.

Already answered the bypass part in post 1 since I knew that would be a common question.

I have a Walbro 450 and Walbro 255HP in the car now with ID 1000's. Going to drop the base pressure back down some and run a couple nozzles to up the fuel. Probably size the nozzles around 60% of my injector size and stage them in. Will do twin 450's if fuel pressure can't hold, I'm logging fuel pressure already.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 11:27 PM   #8
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 33,173
Total Cats: 1,990
Default

Attached Thumbnails
Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-80-e78c5fcd91f8bc1008378ba26cccaef5_f8258696098abb38dae8f73b247990c86facabec.jpg  
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 09:37 AM   #9
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: albion, mi
Posts: 266
Total Cats: 13
Default

Can you please at least get a dyno before starting? Just for a somewhat controlled a/b result that isn't virtual dyno..............
glade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 03:07 PM   #10
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,979
Total Cats: 128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glade View Post
Can you please at least get a dyno before starting? Just for a somewhat controlled a/b result that isn't virtual dyno..............
No, just going to build the new setup. It's around 350whp/300wtq now with the whipple. A 350whp turbo car would be faster since they usually have 350wtq too. I drag race the car every weekend, so I know what it runs now, and I'll know what it runs when the turbo is on. If it goes faster in the 1/8th, then it works better than the whipple.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 03:24 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 5,812
Total Cats: 554
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
This will be a compound setup for now, turbo in the rear of the car under the A/C condenser. May end up bypassing the supercharger once it spools, but not for now as that adds complexity for valves and crap.


This is Pat's version of avoiding complexity! Love it. Sub'd. Gotta' see this.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 03:44 PM   #12
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,979
Total Cats: 128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post


This is Pat's version of avoiding complexity! Love it. Sub'd. Gotta' see this.
Haha, yeah... In all honesty it looks like it's going to be fairly easy to fab all this up. I think the worst part will be fabbing a pipe to get to the front without affecting my ground clearance.

Going to get started now, got some work I can do while I wait on parts to arrive.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 04:05 PM   #13
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 2,963
Total Cats: 215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
No, just going to build the new setup. It's around 350whp/300wtq now with the whipple. A 350whp turbo car would be faster since they usually have 350wtq too. I drag race the car every weekend, so I know what it runs now, and I'll know what it runs when the turbo is on. If it goes faster in the 1/8th, then it works better than the whipple.
Have you ever actually tuned for MBT with the blower?

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 04:08 AM   #14
Newb
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 27
Total Cats: 0
Default

I'm fairly confident I would die first time out in a 300whp miata.

This guy is at 350 and wants more.


I'm in awe.
jtsoldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 09:34 AM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,177
Total Cats: 198
Default

sub'ed.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 01:54 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,950
Total Cats: 139
Default

Just here to say this is completely impossible and I won't believe it until I see it. Oh- and you should go dry sump with tank-in-trunk since you'll be pumping oil all the way back to the rear of the car. That'll simplify things.
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 02:26 AM   #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 94
Total Cats: 1
Default

Just... Just do it. Just do it man.
AdrianD2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 03:17 AM   #18
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,979
Total Cats: 128
Default

Small update, had a change in the plan. Everything the same as above, except change "Whipple" to "small turbo in normal location". Got a little bit done, all SC crap is off the car, header gone, oil pan tapped, valve cover tapped for rear turbo drain to return, shelf cut to firewall for extra clearance (V8 style, should have done that years ago, highly recommend). Haven't fabbed anything, just getting what I can done while I wait on parts to arrive. Plan to remove muffler and find a home for the GT45 tomorrow.

Codrus, not on a dyno, but I did play with adding timing at the drag strip, and it did not help my mph or ET any. That's all I got to answer that question.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 04:00 AM   #19
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 2,963
Total Cats: 215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Codrus, not on a dyno, but I did play with adding timing at the drag strip, and it did not help my mph or ET any. That's all I got to answer that question.
OK. FWIW, I really do recommend dyno tuning next time -- a drag strip's mph has too many variables in it to give you the back-to-back comparison you need to measure the effect of adding timing. Even if you could factor out the effects of varying temperature, traction levels, air density, etc, it's only giving you one number instead of the 20 or so you need (torque at 250 rpm breakpoints from say 3000 to 8000).

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 06:57 AM   #20
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: albion, mi
Posts: 266
Total Cats: 13
Default

******* called it! Compound-turbo feeding a what, cold side supercharger? Or are you just leavingi t off now
glade is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Garrett BB CHRA pressure differential from loose V-Band housing cause oil leak Landrew Engine Performance 13 02-15-2016 05:12 PM
Whipple Virtual Dyno Results patsmx5 Supercharger Discussion 68 02-08-2016 06:44 PM
Help with my noise rear 90 Turbo Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 01-14-2016 09:49 PM
Turbo Miata & ODB2 eurojulien DIY Turbo Discussion 10 01-13-2016 09:59 AM
Cost Effective Upgrades?? andyvo DIY Turbo Discussion 23 01-06-2016 08:27 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:00 AM.