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Old 02-21-2016, 06:53 PM   #421
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Yeah, when tuned right it will respond faster than the wastegate alone. If the valves are controlled properly and the exhaust/gate isn't causing creep issues it will work excellent.

Tune open loop, then use that table as the base point for closed loop control.
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Old 02-21-2016, 07:07 PM   #422
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Yes you can set up closed loop for both
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:09 PM   #423
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im still lost on what the actual goals are for this

I like the madness partially then the other part of me says this is very complicated and not making power nor spooling well at all.

In for dyno graph
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:18 PM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortpersonbk View Post
im still lost on what the actual goals are for this

I like the madness partially then the other part of me says this is very complicated and not making power nor spooling well at all.

In for dyno graph
I am pretty sure the goal is a 10 second car. I heard Pat got mixed up with the wrong people.

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Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-you-still-owe-me-10-second-car.jpg  
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Old 02-22-2016, 05:41 PM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortpersonbk View Post
im still lost on what the actual goals are for this

I like the madness partially then the other part of me says this is very complicated and not making power nor spooling well at all.

In for dyno graph
To have fun, and go fast RELIABLY, on a small budget. I spent 2,000 to build a 500whp turbo setup. Probably the best HP/dollar turbo setup ever at this power level. The turbo setup is not maxed out either, so it should be reliable at this power level since I'm not pushing it to choke flow or very high pressure ratios.

The car is my daily driver, so I'm not doing anything that isn't reliable. The SC wasn't up to my reliability standards, that's 1/2 the reason it came off.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:04 PM   #426
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To have fun, and go fast RELIABLY, on a small budget. I spent 2,000 to build a 500whp turbo setup. Probably the best HP/dollar turbo setup ever at this power level. The turbo setup is not maxed out either, so it should be reliable at this power level since I'm not pushing it to choke flow or very high pressure ratios.

The car is my daily driver, so I'm not doing anything that isn't reliable. The SC wasn't up to my reliability standards, that's 1/2 the reason it came off.
Keep in mind I'm more so just picking your brain on why you went with that setup vs say a s362. Borgs are dead reliable and can be had for like $5-600 new and a s362 will easily handle 650+ on most platforms. Should you ever want more power or quicker power ect you'd have a wide range of drop in turbos s362-s366 and a giant selection of billet wheels race covers ect. It would also most likely spool much quicker then what we are seeing so far.

Either way pretty cool and it will be interesting to see the actual reliability how the rear dif/trans/motor overall holds up.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:07 PM   #427
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He actually removed a Borg EFR that coulda got him to 500+ to go supercharger and then this.

He still even has it. We already discussed this earlier in thread: the point is not a finished product, but to keep building crazy setups.

So asking "why" is irrelevant
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:12 PM   #428
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He actually removed a Borg EFR that coulda got him to 500+ to go supercharger and then this.

He still even has it. We already discussed this earlier in thread: the point is not a finished product, but to keep building crazy setups.

So asking "why" is irrelevant
This. It's fun, I like building things and trying new things. I've learned a ton though all the crap I've done wrong to get to this point. But this setup I built it, have 270 miles on it now, and it's worked almost 100% flawless from the beginning. The biggest problem I've had was two small oil leak, one is already fixed (tighted the hose) the other I have the parts ordered to fix (less than 10 dollars). No boost leaks, no design failures, no major problems, pretty much everything is working the way I expected it to.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:14 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortpersonbk View Post
im still lost on what the actual goals are for this

I like the madness partially then the other part of me says this is very complicated and not making power nor spooling well at all.

In for dyno graph
One of the issues with virtual dyno is that it doesn't depict spool the way a real dyno does unless you run the car in 5th, and at that point you're well into take-me-to-jail-do-not-pass-go-do-not-collect-200-dollars territory by redline.

(One could argue that this is actually a more true depiction of what you'll see for spool in average street driving, but it's not going to be consistent with a real dyno, so it looks odd).

But yes, I want to see Pat's car on a dynojet.

--Ian
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:17 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortpersonbk View Post
Keep in mind I'm more so just picking your brain on why you went with that setup vs say a s362. Borgs are dead reliable and can be had for like $5-600 new and a s362 will easily handle 650+ on most platforms. Should you ever want more power or quicker power ect you'd have a wide range of drop in turbos s362-s366 and a giant selection of billet wheels race covers ect. It would also most likely spool much quicker then what we are seeing so far.

Either way pretty cool and it will be interesting to see the actual reliability how the rear dif/trans/motor overall holds up.
This setup makes 37 PSI boost a 5,000 RPMs if I start from 3,600 RPMs in 5th. Not that bad, but maybe you are doing better.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:18 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
One of the issues with virtual dyno is that it doesn't depict spool the way a real dyno does unless you run the car in 5th, and at that point you're well into take-me-to-jail-do-not-pass-go-do-not-collect-200-dollars territory by redline.

(One could argue that this is actually a more true depiction of what you'll see for spool in average street driving, but it's not going to be consistent with a real dyno, so it looks odd).

But yes, I want to see Pat's car on a dynojet.

--Ian
Yeah 8,800 in 5th is go to jail territory for sure.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:19 PM   #432
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lol that's evo boost territory
and Pat I think people are really curious of lowend because so far I don't think you posted even one plot shoing 2k-5k
they're all sky high rpm and showing peak numbers

I'm usually curious when a car passes the 200wtq mark, that usually tells me how the lowend is regardless of topend

200wtq before 3k is considered pretty decent
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:20 PM   #433
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Quote:
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lol that's evo boost territory
I ain't scared. If I had more fuel I'd run more.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:22 PM   #434
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this is why I give you cats
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:27 PM   #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
lol that's evo boost territory
and Pat I think people are really curious of lowend because so far I don't think you posted even one plot shoing 2k-5k
they're all sky high rpm and showing peak numbers

I'm usually curious when a car passes the 200wtq mark, that usually tells me how the lowend is regardless of topend

200wtq before 3k is considered pretty decent
Posted 2 plots showing close to that.

Post 351 I posted this, started at 2,600 not 2K but close:


Post 392 I posted this:

But I got new plugs in it now, and gapped them down, so I'll do a 2K 5th pull when the roads are dry. It was breaking up at 39 PSI last time I did it:

Attached Thumbnails
Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-vd%25205th%2520gear_zpsfxnwxxxy.jpg   Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-5th_zpsup7re6kq.jpg   Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-booosstt2_zpswegu6cqb.png  
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:31 PM   #436
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this is why I give you cats
Back at ya.

You might not like what I did to get enough fuel to get to 500whp, but it's working great so far. I pulled the plugs yesterday (went from heatrange 8 to 9's) and they looked pretty good, all looked the same.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:34 PM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
...
(One could argue that this is actually a more true depiction of what you'll see for spool in average street driving, but it's not going to be consistent with a real dyno, so it looks odd).

But yes, I want to see Pat's car on a dynojet.

--Ian
You could absolutely argue that, since that's what it is, actual driving.

I'll do a 2K to probably 5K pull in 5th when I get the ignition problem fixed and the roads are dry.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:36 PM   #438
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did you add a jet/nozzle to the charge pipe?

I might not like it, but if it works it works.

are the pumps still ok with it?
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:40 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
...

I'll do a 2K to probably 5K pull in 5th when I get the ignition problem fixed and the roads are dry.
Isn't there about a couple mile long airstrip down there that you Texans use for that sort on thing (annually)?
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:41 PM   #440
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did you add a jet/nozzle to the charge pipe?

I might not like it, but if it works it works.

are the pumps still ok with it?
I added a 1,000cc injector in the charge pipe to spray more E85. I placed it angled in sharply, I'll go take a pic. It seems to be more knock resistant now than before actually from looking at the logs, knock is quieter even at the same AFRs. So now I have 5 1,000cc injectors, running 60 PSI base, all at 100% duty cycle. I loose about 5-7 PSI up top but not too bad.

You can see this in the log I posted above, the "water injection" is actually controlling another injector.
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