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Old 02-22-2016, 06:47 PM   #441
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That's what most of the DI cars including MS3's have to do, if you did it right it should be ok. I was wondering how you were claiming 500whp on 4 id1k's. makes sense now
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:57 PM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
To have fun, and go fast RELIABLY, on a small budget. I spent 2,000 to build a 500whp turbo setup. Probably the best HP/dollar turbo setup ever at this power level.
I'm gonna have to call you on this part.

Fuel system $
Clutch $
Complete engine overhaul $
Ecu $
Ect.

Yes, your turbos night only have cost 2k, but I would counter, that a new efr 7160 kit from trackspeed when all is said and done is fairly evenly priced.


Now, I fully applaud and Adler the fact that you built this, but lets be realistic with costs incurred
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:58 PM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glade View Post
I'm gonna have to call you on this part.

Fuel system $
Clutch $
Complete engine overhaul $
Ecu $
Ect.

Yes, your turbos night only have cost 2k, but I would counter, that a new efr 7160 kit from trackspeed when all is said and done is fairly evenly priced.


Now, I fully applaud and Adler the fact that you built this, but lets be realistic with costs incurred
......which wouldn't include any of the above parts either, so not sure where you're going with that.
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:00 PM   #444
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I was merely trying to bring light to the fact that 500 whp can not in fact be done for $2k, as pat alluded.

Again, not trying to bash on the build, but merely making a notice.

Sorry for the derail.
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:05 PM   #445
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Everyone in this thread knows damn well that he isn't on stock rods with a rising rate fuel regulator and retarded base timing.
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:07 PM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
That's what most of the DI cars including MS3's have to do, if you did it right it should be ok. I was wondering how you were claiming 500whp on 4 id1k's. makes sense now
Sweet, didn't know that!


Quote:
Originally Posted by glade View Post
I'm gonna have to call you on this part.

Fuel system $
Clutch $
Complete engine overhaul $
Ecu $
Ect.

Yes, your turbos night only have cost 2k, but I would counter, that a new efr 7160 kit from trackspeed when all is said and done is fairly evenly priced.


Now, I fully applaud and Adler the fact that you built this, but lets be realistic with costs incurred
Quote:
Originally Posted by glade View Post
I was merely trying to bring light to the fact that 500 whp can not in fact be done for $2k, as pat alluded.

Again, not trying to bash on the build, but merely making a notice.

Sorry for the derail.
It's a 500whp turbo kit, not a 500whp clutch kit, and fuel system, and tires and and and.

I'll add it up and post the exact cost when I get it done, but it's around 2,000 for everything for the TURBO setup. Which would be manifolds/downpipe/exhaust/cat/muffler/turbos/oil lines/intercooler/intercooler pipes/boost controller. Turbo kit as it were.
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:12 PM   #447
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Again, I mean no insult, but I have local kids whom I sell parts to quoting this very build, inquiring if they too can be like pat. I this far have just laughed, but still, a running total would be ****** cool......

Though it would be pointless without a proper dyno.

Gofundme for pat? I'll chip in
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:39 PM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glade View Post
...

I have local kids whom I sell parts to quoting this very build, inquiring if they too can be like pat.

...
Tell them they sure can, and the miata is the perfect car for them.

Attached Thumbnails
Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-fd82c49f9ec9f95a0e4e4e11326f834d.jpg  
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:56 PM   #449
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Pat you have plenty of fuel. Dial that baby back from 9 something to like 11, you're drowning it, and that'll clear up your misfire issue.
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:21 PM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glade View Post
Again, I mean no insult, but I have local kids whom I sell parts to quoting this very build, inquiring if they too can be like pat. I this far have just laughed, but still, a running total would be ****** cool......

Though it would be pointless without a proper dyno.

Gofundme for pat? I'll chip in
Working on updating my cost sheet, will post it when it's finished.

But yes I was able to keep cost low by DIY designing and building most of this stuff, having tools available to use, knowing how to weld and do some fabrication.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Pat you have plenty of fuel. Dial that baby back from 9 something to like 11, you're drowning it, and that'll clear up your misfire issue.
I know, I did that and it still misfired though, it was blowing out the spark I think. New plugs are at .025 vs .032 when it misfired so hopefully that fixes it. Seems all the high boost evo guys run .025 with hot ignition systems.
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:24 PM   #451
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we've run as low as .018 on miata's before
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:39 PM   #452
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Here's the cost. I didn't include links, they didn't copy over well but I have them if someone wants them.

I left off a few things that I already had, the intercooler and BOV are the main things I can think of. BOV is 50 on ebay, intercooler is 80, the ones I run. So add 130 to this if you bought the same ones I have. And that puts you right up to 2K in parts.

Obviously if you looked at all the pics in this thread, I had to modify/massage/change/fix/improve a lot of these ebay parts to work right, but it's doable.





Attached Thumbnails
Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-cost1_zpst4ompmpe.png   Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-cost2_zps4vplkpio.png   Pat's Ebay Turbo Compound Boost Build-cost3_zps0zxpxudb.png  
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:16 PM   #453
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How many hours do you think you have in it Pat?
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:48 PM   #454
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30 hours of designing/measuring/planning/specing parts before buying anything.

8 hours to order all the parts. Then began the build.
Averaged 13 hours/day for 16 days on the actual build = 208 hrs.

30 + 8 + 208 = 246 hrs.
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:52 PM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
...I know, I did that and it still misfired though, it was blowing out the spark I think. New plugs are at .025 vs .032 when it misfired so hopefully that fixes it. Seems all the high boost evo guys run .025 with hot ignition systems.
I thought that a richer mixture is harder to ignite -> lean it out for better spark?
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:55 PM   #456
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I thought that a richer mixture is harder to ignite -> lean it out for better spark?
It knocks at 11.8:1 indicated AFR after 25 PSI. Going richer fixes it.

AFR sensor is between turbos, so backpressure in exhaust skews the readings (indicates a mixture that is richer than it actually is) , much like subaru/evo's do with widebands pre-turbo.

But you don't fix a spark problem with fuel anyways. It's blowing out the spark from high cylinder pressure, so just gap down or up on dwell. I'm at 6ms dwell on IGN1A Race coils, so not going to higher dwell. Running .032" gap on 38 PSI was ambitious anyways.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:13 PM   #457
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For the love of god take it to a real dyno please
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:36 PM   #458
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How do you know actual afr if its off from pressure tho?
Scoob/evo dont actually use/read that sensor in boost
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:45 PM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
How do you know actual afr if its off from pressure tho?
Scoob/evo dont actually use/read that sensor in boost
I don't know exactly since I don't have a back pressure sensor I can't correct for it exactly. It seems to be about spot-on accurate until the big turbo starts spooling, then it gets off as the big turbo spools. Seems to be about a full point off once the big turbo spools. When I install the new cat/muffler I'm going to put an extra O2 sensor bung in the back and move the sensor there. And will note how much it changes in each position.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:20 AM   #460
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sounds like you might be lean actually
Quote:
For those using a wideband to tune their turbocharged cars, be aware that the sensor itself is sensitive to the backpressure of the exhaust. ie A positive exhaust back pressure compared to what the sensor was calibrated at, will cause the sensor to read differently. Increases in pressure cause the sensor to read farther from stoichiometric eg. rich (less than 14.7:1) values get richer as the pressure rises, and lean (greater than 14.7:1) get leaner.

For the NTK sensor and wideband we use, a 5"Hg ( 2.5 psi) backpressure will cause an actual AFR of 12.8:1 to read 12.5:1 on the display, and a 19.3:1 AFR to read 20.0:1.

For our sensor this goes according to the formula:

lambda|corrected = lambda|displayed - ((lambda|displayed -1)/a)*Pexh

Where:

a=39.3 for lean mixtures, and 33.3 for rich mixtures

Pexh= exhaust pressure in "Hg above the pressure at which the sensor was calibrated.

This may only effect guys where the wideband is in the headers/cross-over, or where the wideband is just downstream of the turbine, and the downpipe is small / you have full exhaust.
in which case you'd be breaking up from terrible leanness rather than blowing out the spark.

don't splooge this engine. move the o2 asap
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