Shuiend tries built motor #4, lets see how I break this one - Page 40 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-23-2011, 03:50 PM   #781
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If there's one thing I know about Lars is that he won't care how it looks so long as it works.
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Old 05-23-2011, 03:54 PM   #782
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If there's one thing I know about Lars is that he won't care how it looks so long as it works.
Exactly. I will be working on it a little more tonight to try to make it look a little better. I can say though that now I am not afraid of my brake fluid reservoir will not melt on me.
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:10 PM   #783
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Pics of heat shield !
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:11 PM   #784
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haha I'm glad the pink burnt away! Heat shield looks good to me, IMHO. I haven't been able to make one look good ever. And 225kpa = 18psi gage, right? 3750rpm seems pretty good. I don't think I'm getting 14 at that rpm with my 2560 yet, although it was raining today so I haven't been able to tweak anything yet.
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:11 PM   #785
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it was posted dude.
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:42 PM   #786
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Run a larger, shorter hose to the WG. My stuff works best when I use the nipple on the compressor to the WG.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:01 PM   #787
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I too run fatty hose from comp housing to MBC to WG. Size does matter. If your lines are long your spool will go to ****. When I had my ebc in cockpit I lost 800rpm of spool. About the same too when I sourced my signal post IC pre TB per Joe Ps recommendation. If I experience boost sag with compressor sourcing it is 1psi at most.

Boost control plays a huge factor in spool and is often overlooked FTL. I suppose the best way to find out the maximum spool capabilities for your turbo would be to disconnect the WG signal line and log that bitch. Of course, have overboost protection enabled.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:08 PM   #788
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Would not a long and/or small diameter WG signal line cause the WG to open slower/later, causing boost control issues (like overshoot) but should not create any more lag compared to short/larger diameter line? I run about 10" of tiny *** diameter from the compressor housing to the GM EBC, then another 6" of small dia line to the actuator. Back in the day I thought the smaller the diameter, the less volume to compress in the signal line (and I still run these lines), as opposed to the restriction of the signal line that's common believe today...
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:11 PM   #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
haha I'm glad the pink burnt away! Heat shield looks good to me, IMHO. I haven't been able to make one look good ever. And 225kpa = 18psi gage, right? 3750rpm seems pretty good. I don't think I'm getting 14 at that rpm with my 2560 yet, although it was raining today so I haven't been able to tweak anything yet.
After I saw the heat shield in the pics of your new setup I figured I could make one and not feel to bad. I am going to bend down all the tabs and rivet them in place to make it stronger. I was just test fitting last night.

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Run a larger, shorter hose to the WG. My stuff works best when I use the nipple on the compressor to the WG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post

I too run fatty hose from comp housing to MBC to WG. Size does matter. If your lines are long your spool will go to ****. When I had my ebc in cockpit I lost 800rpm of spool. About the same too when I sourced my signal post IC pre TB per Joe Ps recommendation. If I experience boost sag with compressor sourcing it is 1psi at most.

Boost control plays a huge factor in spool and is often overlooked FTL. I suppose the best way to find out the maximum spool capabilities for your turbo would be to disconnect the WG signal line and log that bitch. Of course, have overboost protection enabled.
I am using a 1/4inch line that is teed off the brake line. It then goes to another "T" connector. One side goes to the lower EWG port. One side goes and gets shrunk down to 3/8 line I believe to hook up to the EBC and then back up to 1/4 after the EBC. Right now the EBC is not tuned right and it is hitting 225kpa which is what I have my overboost set at. I need to play with it some more tonight. Without EBC hooked up and just the 1/4 line running to lower port I get 160kpa at about 3600rpms. With EBC I hit 180kpa at 3300rpms and 225kpa at 3800rpms. So the EBC is definitely helping out spool. This weekend when I am up in VA Braineack and I will get the EBC actually tuned so that it holds at my target correctly.

I will get a better pic of my lines tonight when I get home.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:48 PM   #790
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I guess heatwrap and a blankie won't keep cyl from melting?
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:57 PM   #791
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That is a picture of how my lines are currently run. The red line shows which lines are vacuum. I know I could probably make it all shorter and I might do that tomorrow night.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:19 PM   #792
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Loose the giant bracket holding on the diagnostic box, tuck it just under the fender lip, zip tying it to the rest of the harness that's under there. Free way to clean up that area, while you're working over there.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:29 PM   #793
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short.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:33 PM   #794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Loose the giant bracket holding on the diagnostic box, tuck it just under the fender lip, zip tying it to the rest of the harness that's under there. Free way to clean up that area, while you're working over there.
Good idea. That bracket is just added weight.

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short.
I guess I will work on making it shorter in the morning. I will try to get me a good 5th gear pull on my way to work to see if shorter helps any.
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:12 AM   #795
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So The Brain and I could not get my EBC working correctly, so this is on wastegate. I know that with a working EBC I should be able to get a quicker spool. Also I really need MOAR BOOST. The turbo just does not feel alive at only 10psi.
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:33 AM   #796
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Do not Tee off the brake booster line, that's behind the throttle plate and way behind it at that.

One reason your current set-up sucks so much *** is because that ***** little spring in there is opening because there is not enough pressure in the top canister, fast enough. The smart man will use a Y fitting on the compressor housing to feed both canisters. Your vacuum line routing is a worst-case scenario for pressurizing either chamber. It will be slow to spool because the top chamber route is too long, and will overshoot and act erratically during gear changes due to time required to evacuate the long *** lines. If I had my druthers and weren't back-doored into NASA classing I'd be on the 12psi spring with only the little 4" line to the WG, running spring pressure, loving life.

I know I'm asking a basic question here, but a lot of guys overlook this...you are aware that using the top canister for the BC means you invert the duty concept, right? In a manual boost control set-up like mine you lower spring pressure to increase"boost"; 100% open = full boost/explosions/fire/AIDS/socialism/restricted gun ownership. Make sure your boost-cut is set-up.

Have you tried running the EBC on the lower can, and leaving the upper open? TiAL guy told me there's no real reason to use the upper chamber unless I'm running anti-lag, 2-step, staged boost control, or other crazy **** I don't understand.

Of course the turbo feels dead at 10psi, you need to put at least 250whp in there for the car to start moving which I guess is 14psi:

My turbo feels dead until 12psi and doesn't really sing until 14psi (16psi feels like "prime"), and your compressor is larger than mine:

I remember tuning my car the first time and going from 10-14psi too me from roughly 190whp-230whp on the log manifold. Then 14-16psi too me 30whp with just a 2psi increase. "Welcome to the sweet spot".
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Old 05-29-2011, 01:28 PM   #797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
That is a picture of how my lines are currently run. The red line shows which lines are vacuum. I know I could probably make it all shorter and I might do that tomorrow night.
hustler is right about the wastegate port. i'm surprised brain didn't catch that. unless they changed design with that new wastegate, when you only use 1 port, it's the bottom one. that's how the tials on my galant and crx are hooked up, and they work perfectly. the only time i used both ports was when i had a hks evcIV on a gsx. that ebc had 3 lines, and did that to get super fast movement of the wastegate.

recipe for success: hallman mbc, signal from comp. housing, bottom port on wastegate, bathe in tiger blood, WINNING!

oh, +1 on the diag. box. is that where that thing was? i did exactly what curly said, plus removed about 10 other brackets and bs that wasn't needed.
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Old 05-29-2011, 01:37 PM   #798
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Yeah, get rid of the EBC. When you have hardware as good as this, EBC is not for boost control, it's for other features like staged boost control and you don't need that on this car.
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:31 PM   #799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Do not Tee off the brake booster line, that's behind the throttle plate and way behind it at that.

One reason your current set-up sucks so much *** is because that ***** little spring in there is opening because there is not enough pressure in the top canister, fast enough. The smart man will use a Y fitting on the compressor housing to feed both canisters. Your vacuum line routing is a worst-case scenario for pressurizing either chamber. It will be slow to spool because the top chamber route is too long, and will overshoot and act erratically during gear changes due to time required to evacuate the long *** lines. If I had my druthers and weren't back-doored into NASA classing I'd be on the 12psi spring with only the little 4" line to the WG, running spring pressure, loving life.

I know I'm asking a basic question here, but a lot of guys overlook this...you are aware that using the top canister for the BC means you invert the duty concept, right? In a manual boost control set-up like mine you lower spring pressure to increase"boost"; 100% open = full boost/explosions/fire/AIDS/socialism/restricted gun ownership. Make sure your boost-cut is set-up.

Have you tried running the EBC on the lower can, and leaving the upper open? TiAL guy told me there's no real reason to use the upper chamber unless I'm running anti-lag, 2-step, staged boost control, or other crazy **** I don't understand.

Of course the turbo feels dead at 10psi, you need to put at least 250whp in there for the car to start moving which I guess is 14psi:

My turbo feels dead until 12psi and doesn't really sing until 14psi (16psi feels like "prime"), and your compressor is larger than mine:
]
I remember tuning my car the first time and going from 10-14psi too me from roughly 190whp-230whp on the log manifold. Then 14-16psi too me 30whp with just a 2psi increase. "Welcome to the sweet spot".
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Originally Posted by spoolin2bars View Post
hustler is right about the wastegate port. i'm surprised brain didn't catch that. unless they changed design with that new wastegate, when you only use 1 port, it's the bottom one. that's how the tials on my galant and crx are hooked up, and they work perfectly. the only time i used both ports was when i had a hks evcIV on a gsx. that ebc had 3 lines, and did that to get super fast movement of the wastegate.

recipe for success: hallman mbc, signal from comp. housing, bottom port on wastegate, bathe in tiger blood, WINNING!

oh, +1 on the diag. box. is that where that thing was? i did exactly what curly said, plus removed about 10 other brackets and bs that wasn't needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Yeah, get rid of the EBC. When you have hardware as good as this, EBC is not for boost control, it's for other features like staged boost control and you don't need that on this car.
Below is how my EWG is currently hooked up. Brain and I tried hooking up the EBC in probably half a dozen ways with all sort of different settings. Basically we do not think the old GM boost solenoid does not have large enough ports to bleed of air. I am sure Brain will post up all the various configurations that we tried.

I want an EBC because with MS3 it actually works once you get it setup. I also am planning on VSS working so that I can do gear based boost control. I had a larger waste gate spring originally and in lower gears my rear end likes to step out when I get into the upper RPMS. So keeping boost low in first through third gears is something I would like.

I really wish I could have gotten into the turbos efficiency range. I have briefly been up around 200kpa and that is when the turbo becomes lots of fun.

So where do you guys suggest getting vacuum from for the EWG? My compressor is not tapped for an air port and I rather not tap it. I know I should be running it post IC for accurate boost reading.

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Old 05-29-2011, 03:10 PM   #800
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So where do you guys suggest getting vacuum from for the EWG? My compressor is not tapped for an air port and I rather not tap it. I know I should be running it post IC for accurate boost reading.
I have a 1-2psi drop in the intercooler, but zero inconsistency with heat-soak when the car is moving. I'd take the WG signal as close to the turbo as possible, maybe from the intercooler tank.

I agree with you guys that the ports on just about every boost controller are too small. TiAL guy told me to bore-out the ports and hope for the best. The expensive, fancy, Greddy and Apexi supposedly have larger ports but I don't have that kind of cash nor do I give a ****.
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Old 05-29-2011, 03:24 PM
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