Shuiend tries built motor #4, lets see how I break this one - Page 8 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-04-2010, 07:43 PM   #141
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Any reason why I shouldn't run old oil with about 2500 miles on it through the engine trying to get it primed? Then once I start getting pressure switch to new oil?
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:46 PM   #142
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Err, only because my oil catch pans are rarely clean enough when I drain my oil for me to feel comfortable pouring it back in. What's wrong with a $10 gallon of oil?
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:49 PM   #143
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Err, only because my oil catch pans are rarely clean enough when I drain my oil for me to feel comfortable pouring it back in. What's wrong with a $10 gallon of oil?
Was just curious before I put in brand new oil. I just happened to have the bottle full of oil right next to the car. And after I put in the new oil, I am a little to drunk to go buy more tonight. I will throw in new oil now.
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:53 PM   #144
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What damage should I expect to have been done? Should I just pull the motor when I get to SC and take it all apart?
I bet you are OK with that short amount of time. I know worse scenarios that have tuned out fine. You didn't try to drive it and put a load on it so I think I would fix the HG and refill it with fresh oil.

Edit: Just changing the oil and running it for another 30 seconds should tell you what is happening. If you have a clean container you could turn right around and drain it into to analyze it for water/gas that would be a plus.
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Old 08-04-2010, 08:55 PM   #145
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So I put in fresh oil and new water. ran tried starting the motor without injectors or spark plugs installed for about a minute. I did not get any oil pressure then. I then started the car and let it run for 15-20 seconds and promptly turned it off. I had no oil pressure during that time either. Next I drained the oil and it was just oil and a tiny bit of gasoline that came out. So I am happy it was not water in my oil pan, just all the gas from trying to start the car a million times.

I am planning now on pulling the motor in SC and will try to figure out why it does not get oil pressure. The oil pump I used was old and I actually do no know the condition of it. It was in the box of parts that came with the bottom end. I opened it up and replaced the the OPG with my Billet ones from Travis. Then filled with assembly lube and put it back together. Should I go ahead and plan on just ordering a new one from mazda now and swap in my oil pump gears? Or should I check out the old one and try to fix it?
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:03 PM   #146
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How are you verifying that you aren't getting oil pressure?
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:10 PM   #147
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Does anyone out there have a generic mechanical gauge you can hook up to see if you get a reading?
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:16 PM   #148
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How are you verifying that you aren't getting oil pressure?
OPG keeps reading zero and I have no oil coming out of my oil drain line from my turbo. Car has probably ran for about a minute total now so it should have built up oil pressure.

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Does anyone out there have a generic mechanical gauge you can hook up to see if you get a reading?
Not that I know of.

I plan on trying Zx-Tex method of priming the oil pump once I am down in SC.
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:18 PM   #149
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Old 08-05-2010, 08:02 AM   #150
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Remove oil pressure sensor...pressurize block fitting side, see what gauge does.


Also, without there being a friggin' hole in your HG I don't see how you could blow it in that short of time. Oil pressure will be greater than water pressure for most of warmup (actually, almost all the time), so you'd see oil in your water first...that is assuming of course that you have oil pressure. When people blow head gaskets water gets into the oil circuit after shut-off, when there is no oil pressure, but residual heat and pressure in the coolant system for a good half hour after.

The way you describe fluid draining makes me really think water. Gasoline has a lower density than oil, and would not sit on the bottom. It also has more tint (almost resembles Mountain Dew nowadays), and not clear enough to be confused with water.

EDIT: Talked to larsfail in gchat, and he claims VA gas is clear, and that it burned on a rag, so disregard the above. Gas around here has a lot of die in it.


At this point of the failboat it's time to REALLY take on proper diagnostic techniques. Verify verify verify...or you're chasing ghosts. Not verifying cam timing, your first issue and suggestion, cost you weeks of frustration. A compression test would have told you this even more clearly.

1. Pressure test coolant system.
2. Verify OPG function. If non-responsive, either fix, or use a simple gauge. Sensing oil pressure is crucial now.
3. Prime and then try to start.


EDIT 2:

My honest assessment is that it was gas in your oil from so many starts. Since your exhaust cam was off it was much harder to expel unburnt fuel, and it all sat in the cylinders.

Another way to check oil pressure is to pull valve cover and start. You'll know in seconds...
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Old 08-05-2010, 08:09 AM   #151
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Another way to check oil pressure is to pull valve cover and start. You'll know in seconds...
True that. Oil will shoot out of the VVT stalk.
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Old 08-05-2010, 08:17 AM   #152
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Pull your turbo oil feed line and let the end sit in a can/bucket while you crank on the engine. If oil comes out of the feed line....You get the point.

Easiest way I've found to verify oil pressure.

Also, is your engine running extremely loud when cranking or running? As if it has a super loud HLA tick? Oil pump is completely stock?
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Old 08-05-2010, 08:32 AM   #153
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no, he put in billet oil pump gearz. I suggested oil feed in bucket to him as well.
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Old 08-05-2010, 08:53 AM   #154
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Pull your turbo oil feed line and let the end sit in a can/bucket while you crank on the engine. If oil comes out of the feed line....You get the point.

Easiest way I've found to verify oil pressure.

Also, is your engine running extremely loud when cranking or running? As if it has a super loud HLA tick? Oil pump is completely stock?
I actually undid the oil drain line from my turbo and put a bucket under that to see if I was getting oil pressure. I figured that would be easier to catch then oil out the oil feed line. Nothing was coming out of it. If I have time tonight between packing I may try what you describe.
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:22 AM   #155
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Sucks to hear man. it looked like you had finally had it all sorted.


Lol @ title change.
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:32 AM   #156
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Sucks to hear man. it looked like you had finally had it all sorted.


Lol @ title change.
I am coming for your spot as the most full of fail, you better watch out. I am moving down to the beach and I plan on taking up raft building lessons.
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Old 08-05-2010, 10:46 AM   #157
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Well I hope mine starts after everything that has been done. Or else it would be to square one.

My raft sank. You might want to invest on a better instructor.
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:29 PM   #158
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WAIT WAIT WAIT.....

Billet oil pump gears. What oil pump housing?

If you bought standard billet gears from travis, they're going to be for the NA housing. You have to specify NB gears if you want NB gears. They are about 20 thousandths of an inch thicker than NA Gears. Mazda increased the size of the oil pumps in 01 in order to add oil flow for the VVT. They later replaced the 99-00 part number with the higher flowing 01 pumps. If you order an NA oil pump part number, you'll still get the smaller oil pump which correctly fits the standard BE Gears.

The additional 20 thousandths of an inch gap is enough to allow air to flow across the face of the gears from the high pressure side to the low pressure side. The resulting outcome is that your oil pump WILL NOT SELF PRIME. However, once it has oil in the actual pump, the viscosity of the oil is high enough that your pump will correctly move oil. You'll see oil pressure as high as 90psi cold (pressure relief valve opens at 90psi). The only solution is to remove the oil pump and replace the housing with a standard NA housing, or replace the gears with Travis's special request NB gears.

Go Ahead.....ask me how i know....
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:33 PM   #159
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Hmm, I used my 99/00 housing with the BE gears. I checked clearances, they were on the tight side of factory. Is this a problem? Or is it only a problem for 01+ housings?
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:38 PM   #160
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Pretty sure he got NA gears and put them on his NA oil pump.

this is a 94 block, 01 head, and 99 IM.
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