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Old 04-25-2016, 02:09 PM   #581
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I asked v8r for some details on their swap and the only real info I got was that rack clearance is an issue.
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:12 PM   #582
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On the subframe weight: If the V8R subframe is less that the allowed weight reduction for an engine swap, then add bolt on ballasts if you're worried about having to prove it. If you're really worried, carry more ballast than the advertised weight reduction. That way when some one protests that you didn't add enough weight, you just unbolt them and put them on the scales.
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Old 04-25-2016, 03:36 PM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
IMO, the logic behind that wording...
I get what you're saying, but if the rule read something like "modification to the fire wall is NOT allowed to for the benefit/compensation of engine block/cylinder head position" it would then disallow or at least leave the decision up to impound discretion. As it sits right now Leafy "could" modify his firewall to fit whatever is within the rule "intent", and have that item allow him to gain his engine position. Of course he would then compete and find himself at the next event with a rule clarification that makes his engine swap position/mod illegal. In this case it would be "logical" to get the clarification first.
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Old 04-25-2016, 10:38 PM   #584
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This firewall talk might be moot. After doing a shitload of math I've decided to just move the rack forward.4 inches and increase my total toe out by at most 1/8th of an inch I can achieve the same dynamic toe over the usable range.
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:04 AM   #585
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Fits much better with the V8R subframe. Still have to move the rack forward and play with the hardlines. Not bad though. Waiting for the NC pan to show up to see if I can be really really happy.It'll definitely clear with the ranger pan, but that would be like an inch lower than the subframe.
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Old 05-24-2016, 04:20 AM   #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTUBA View Post
There is no way to effectively prove the suspension pickup points are EXACTLY in the same location as the stock pickups and there is no way to prove it's weight is legal without removing the entire damn subframe in a protest.
Would the SCCA allow you to submit a FARO arm scan of a stock NB subframe and the V8R subframe to prove that the pickups and mounting holes were all in the correct position and then have a tech official stamp or tag the subframe? Surely the ~10lb weight loss over the nose of the car is worth jumping through the hoops.
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:05 AM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Would the SCCA allow you to submit a FARO arm scan of a stock NB subframe and the V8R subframe to prove that the pickups and mounting holes were all in the correct position and then have a tech official stamp or tag the subframe? Surely the ~10lb weight loss over the nose of the car is worth jumping through the hoops.
It can't have 10lbs of weight loss.
The rule states that alternate sub-frames MUST weigh NO LESS than the factory part.
So he will not only have to prove the pickup points are EXACTLY the same as the stock sub-frame but he will also need to add AT LEAST 10lbs of ballast to the sub-frame.(Not elsewhere in the car.....but to the sub-frame)

I have had several heated discussions with members of the SMAC about opening this allowance up. But the fear is that if you add the weight benefit for sub-frames, everyone will do them and then the pickup points will be impossible to enforce.

Many of my conversations have been around how it would be handled in a protest. Since it is the competitors job to prove his car is legal, would he need to remove the sub-frame in case of a protest to have it weighed? Would he also need to carry a stock sub-frame as a reference point? I was never able to get a clear answer.

As far as I can tell, Leafy will be the first person in SSM to try to take advantage of the sub-frame allowance....I'm interested to see how it goes.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:09 AM   #588
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Its on the pc to decide. I will be bringing pictures of the weight of the stock sub frame and the weight of the v8r + ballast. It will be up to the pc to determine if that is sufficient or if they want to procure an NB subframe and weigh. It will also be up to the pc if manufactures claims of being the same exact geometry are sufficient or if they want to pull it and use a tape measure. I called v8r and straight up told them it needs to match the NB geometry for my racing class and they said it was exactly the same and I shouldn't have an issue. I also tape measured it like I assume the pc would on site and they match closer than I'd give for measurement error. I'm not worried. Anyone who protests is going to be buying me a free alignment at nats ands going to owe me a **** load of beer when they're wrong.

As the rule is written there's not many people that can legitimately use the allowance. It says for facilitating engine swaps, as clearly proven by csp the NB motors fit the na chassis fine with either sub frame.
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:54 AM   #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Its on the pc to decide. I will be bringing pictures of the weight of the stock sub frame and the weight of the v8r + ballast. It will be up to the pc to determine if that is sufficient or if they want to procure an NB subframe and weigh. It will also be up to the pc if manufactures claims of being the same exact geometry are sufficient or if they want to pull it and use a tape measure. I called v8r and straight up told them it needs to match the NB geometry for my racing class and they said it was exactly the same and I shouldn't have an issue. I also tape measured it like I assume the pc would on site and they match closer than I'd give for measurement error. I'm not worried. Anyone who protests is going to be buying me a free alignment at nats ands going to owe me a **** load of beer when they're wrong.

As the rule is written there's not many people that can legitimately use the allowance. It says for facilitating engine swaps, as clearly proven by csp the NB motors fit the na chassis fine with either sub frame.
You need to study the definition of "facilitate" it doesn't mean "to make possible."

I've already had that debate with members of tge SMAC and SEB.

I don't think you're ever gonna get protested for it....it's just too close to "the line" for me to test.
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:22 PM   #590
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If you want to be even safer bolt on as much weight as the stock subframe weighs lol. When someone protests unbolt it and say here, this is heavier than the stock subframe, so the laws of physics say you are wrong.
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Old 05-31-2016, 10:09 PM   #591
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Did some things.




It fits with the NC pan and that subframe, barely. Started working on the steering rack mounts. Realized I should buy more metal, stopped. Re-installed the oil pump, re-timed the motor, used the loctite 680 locking compound on brand new mazda locking washers on the crank pulley, but I didint quite get to 76ftlbs + 90 because the two flywheel bolts I partially threaded into the crank to use the prybar on ripped out. I had to order a tap and a couple more bolts so I got stuck there. Tack welded the cam ring to the cam in case they spin on these motors like the BP. Sealed everything back up besides the oil pan because I havent figured out where exactly the oil drain will go (or where the oil feed will come from).

Oh check this out.


There's easy room for a 3 1/2" DOWNPIPE.

**** how do you change text size on this new forum software.

Oh and I got the stock tranny alignment pins out with heavy use of the torch to insert the offset ones. Once I run out of the current parts I just ordered there might be another long pause, the E street car ate its CumHos already and has blown shocks and a bent LCA so I have to spend money on that one I guess.
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:02 AM   #592
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When you say it fits, does that mean you aren't moving the steering rack anymore?

Edit:
Looking at the pics, it looks like the factory location on the v8r subframe puts the rack into through the engine.

Last edited by asmasm; 06-05-2016 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 06-05-2016, 12:08 PM   #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asmasm View Post
When you say it fits, does that mean you aren't moving the steering rack anymore?

Edit:
Looking at the pics, it looks like the factory location on the v8r subframe puts the rack into through the engine.
Moving the rack, I can do it legally and I did the dynamic toe math so I have no concerns about doing it. I'll have to run a touch more static toe out to get the same dynamic toe in the corners I experience. But I know so little about a7s I might have already had too much or not enough Akerman with the stock geometry. There's plenty more time left in tuning other parts of the car where paying to get grip vs camber vs load vs slip data for my tires isn't worth it so I could properly set dynamic toe isn't worth the money, and I don't think it ever will be in this class.
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:00 AM   #594
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18.5lbs. 450ftlb rated 7.25" twin disk. $800. Custom.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:45 PM   #595
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I've done things. I made one set of engine mounts, decided that I was dumb and how they were would make taking the engine in and out suck.





And I also set the engine in on its own mounts finally. Still held by the jack on the tranny because I havent made the PPF adapter yet.



Clutch setup is pretty sweet. I need to figure out the throwout bearing because I hate cables and ford decided to use a goofy diameter for the bit the tob runs on so thats a struggle.

445 Hooksett Rd



Also ******* ford, why you use M12x1.00 bolts? ******* stupid size. The ARPs arent long enough. I ended up finding the part number for the dual mass flywheel bolts which worked fine. Except they use an E11 head, thats inverted torx, which I have due to formerly being a saturn owner. Also, made in Italy for some reason.



I've got to drop the engine back in and make a PPF adapter. I'm going to have to cut the PPF shorter as well because its just too long to work with this tranny.

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Old 07-29-2016, 12:36 AM   #596
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yay pimp tilton hydraulic tob arrived finally. I had to cut the inputshaft bearing retainer down so that the bearing fit properly. I just need to get a 2nd person to help me mate the tranny in and then hopefully I wont have to seperate them for a couple years. I will have to drill two holes for the two hydro lines once I drop the tranny back in and figure out where to drill the holes, hoping I can fish them through without having to open it up.




Then I'll set the engine back in and make the ppf adapter. Once I finish that I'll probably put the front suspension back into the car and roll it out so I can do other work in the garage for a couple weeks like replace the wrx valve cover gaskets and align the street miatas. Then I'll start work on the aero stuff again while I can have the garage doors open for ventilation.
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:33 AM   #597
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Look familiar? From another life, with lots of oil leaks. Mine had swivel joints though instead of flare ends. This picture was taken with a Kodak? digital camera that saved to a floppy disk.

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Old 08-01-2016, 09:35 PM   #598
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The tilton is actually swivel joints as well. They're just proprietary. They use an oring seal and the fittings are held to the bearing block with a snap ring. I'm going to extend the lines and mount them to the firewall with bulkhead fittings for ease of use.

I spent all weekend humping the tranny and engine together and apart because I didnt like how it was fitting together. The clearances are just so tight on this clutch that if the disks are clamped its practically bound. But with the disks unclamped its goes in freely. Kind of a pita, You basically have to extend the slave cylinder to get the tranny on and off the engine.
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Old 10-10-2016, 09:13 AM   #599
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I missed posting some stuff. I made the car support the weight of the motor and tranny. The ppf adapter is big piece of beef, like 10 pounds because I need ballast. I finish welded an the mounts and welded the steering rack mounts to the sub frame. I test fit the efr and decided I must use the ewg housing because the iwg rod hits the engine block if the turbo is far enough back for the intake to clear the radiator. And I made up a manifold in solidworks. Seems legit.



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Old 10-10-2016, 09:53 AM   #600
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Pics of ppf adapter or gtfo.. also respond to my pm
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