Trackspeed's '02SE "Acamas" - EFR6758, TSE motor, 400whp or bust - Page 15 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-07-2016, 06:07 PM   #281
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Had a great event at MRLS. If I didn't see you there, I wanted to! Gave a bunch of thrill rides but didn't do much hotlapping. I was able to get a built motor into the car (specs below) and get the EFR6758 swapped in along with a set of ID1000s. What I didn't have time to do was get the Fuelab FPR or D585 coils installed, which meant I was limited to ~220kpa on the stock VVT coils. My butt dyno says it's ~280whp. With a full 10/10ths hit out of T11, the car would brush ~125mph indicated before braking for T2.

One of the issues I was happy to recreate was excessive oil from the valve cover breather on the driver's side. This is a problem I never solved on Theseus, but I think I have a good shot at knocking that problem out now. Radium released a real-deal oil/air separator last year at PRI, and I scooped one up this week to test. They are a little pricey ($400) but if it does what's advertised, it will be money well spent.



It draws from the valve cover and runs the blowby through a cavity filled with SS chips which pull the oil out of the air and let it filter down to the bottom of the can. Pretty simple properly-designed catch can stuff.



The trickery comes in what to do with that oil and how to treat it.



The bottom of the can has a cavity which is filled with engine coolant (you route coolant to it, I'll loop it in after the throttle body and before the front water neck). This keeps the liquid oil hot, which prevents the water vapor from separating and creating that nasty cappuccino effect that everyone gets in their catch can normally. Now that you can safely drain that oil back to the oil pan, you do so with a big -10 ORB port in the bottom of the separator and a second bung in the pan. I'll use some -10AN nylon hose to do this. Another big -10 ORB port in the side of the separator routes into the turbo intake which provides a steady, constant source of vacuum to draw vapors out of the crankcase under boost. Once it's installed and working, it should effectively draw vapors from the crankcase and drain any oil back to the pan with zero required maintenance or upkeep on my end, which is the goal.

The stock VVT coils are just starting to hesitate at 220kpa, so it's time for an ignition upgrade. D585 coils are the obvious option, and something I've been meaning to do for a long time. We will do a kit similar to our Toyota coil kits which will pair used D585 coils with a good bracket, PnP wires, and a wire-by-color wiring harness.

With 400whp in my sights, I'll also need to get an aftermarket FPR into the car to give me boost-referenced fuel pressure. I have a Fuelab 535 3-port regulator on the shelf, and after discussing my plans with the techs at Fuelab, they've got no problem with using the regulator in a returnless configuration like I plan to do. My plan is to mount it under the car next to (or in place of) the factory fuel filter, and plumb it using the same OEM-style Dorman fittings I used to plumb the flex fuel sensor up front. I'll run the world's longest vacuum hose to boost reference it, then delete the in-tank FPR. I'll use the same base pressure (60psi) but the boost reference will let me reach 400whp on ID1000s with a little room to spare. I should also be able to keep both factory fuel dampers at the front of the car, but we'll see if they are able to keep up. If they can't, I'll do a fuel rail and a Radium damper as well. In the tank, I'll swap the current DW200 out for a DW300 and re-wire it with a Hella SSR straight from the battery.

My experiment with the cheap Treadstone cores didn't leave me impressed enough to justify the hassle, so out it comes in favor of the Precision 350hp I started with a year ago. That will be the core we use for our upcoming intercooler kits, so there's also final mounting work to be done to locate it in both my '02 as well as the '94 development chassis I have (both with full A/C systems).

The final goal when I started the project was ~325whp on pump gas and 425whp+ on E85, and I'm getting close
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:11 PM   #282
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PS - I have christened the car "Acamas". Acamas is a character from Greek mythology, one of the sons of Theseus

Motor specs - Trackspeed Stage 2 "Bulletproof"
-Supertech piston, 83.5mm 8.6:1, with extra thermal crown coating
-Manley rods
-ACL Race bearings
-Boundary Stage 2 oil pump
-ARP Main Studs
-ARP Head Studs
-Supertech Double Valve Springs
-Supermiata Harmonic Damper

Last edited by Savington; 10-07-2016 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:15 PM   #283
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Awesome!!
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:45 PM   #284
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Quote:
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I was able to get a built motor into the car (specs below)
Lies. All I want to know is what CR you are running on our local CA91.

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They are a little pricey ($400) but if it does what's advertised, it will be money well spent.
I'm not having problems with this. Yet. But I'm glad I'm subscribed to your newsletter.

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Now that you can safely drain that oil back to the oil pan, you do so with a big -10 ORB port in the bottom of the separator and a second bung in the pan.
I must have missed something, no valve? Just free-drains back into the pan?

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Once it's installed and working, it should effectively draw vapors from the crankcase and drain any oil back to the pan with zero required maintenance or upkeep on my end, which is the goal.
I mean, I'm lazy, I just don't know if I'm $400 catch can lazy. In for results.

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D585 coils are the obvious option, and something I've been meaning to do for a long time. We will do a kit similar to our Toyota coil kits which will pair used D585 coils with a good bracket, PnP wires, and a wire-by-color wiring harness.
Thank you.

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I have a Fuelab 535 3-port regulator on the shelf, and after discussing my plans with the techs at Fuelab, they've got no problem with using the regulator in a returnless configuration like I plan to do.
...but...
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My plan is to mount it under the car next to (or in place of) the factory fuel filter, and plumb it using the same OEM-style Dorman fittings I used to plumb the flex fuel sensor up front. I'll run the world's longest vacuum hose to boost reference it, then delete the in-tank FPR. I'll use the same base pressure (60psi) but the boost reference will let me reach 400whp on ID1000s with a little room to spare.
Isn't that technically a return system?

Haters are going to hate, but I understand exactly why you are doing this and I'm excited to hear that this is happening. Please please please post results. Please. Pretty please. I'll buy more things from you.

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In the tank, I'll swap the current DW200 out for a DW300 and re-wire it with a Hella SSR straight from the battery.
Is there any point to making a high-amp fuel pump SSR relay kit for those of us who are too lazy to source our own parts? (hint hint)

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My experiment with the cheap Treadstone cores didn't leave me impressed enough to justify the hassle
Please elaborate.

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The final goal when I started the project was ~325whp on pump gas and 425whp+ on E85, and I'm getting close
I'm so glad to see where this is going Keep up the good work!
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:48 PM   #285
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Hella SSR requires no kit.

Its literally a relay. That even plugs into a standard relay socket.

If you were using a big mosfet (which is what the hella relay is, in a waterproof package with a heatsink) then you might want one.

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Old 10-07-2016, 07:44 PM   #286
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Isn't that technically a return system?
All regulators return excess pressure to the tank. The stock NB FPR does it with 3 inches of hose, the stock NA does it with 8 feet of hard line and hose. The system described (which is similar to the one I'm using with FM parts) uses about 3 feet of hose.

IMHO, the important distinction is whether the fuel rail is a part of the continual flow loop, or if it's a dead end on the line.

There are two main drawbacks to system I have. One is that even with a Radium FP damper, the pressure in the dead-end section of the line is still somewhat noisy at low fuel flow rates. This is non-ideal, but not really a big problem. The second drawback is that I think this is a part of my lean-hot-restart problem. When the car heat soaks, the injectors get hot, which means the resistance in the copper wires in the solenoids goes up. This means that you get less current at a given voltage, so the dead time increases. With big injectors, a change in dead time means a significant change in fuel delivery at low duty cycles (like at idle), so on heat-soaked restart the car runs lean and idles poorly. The problem fixes itself when the injectors cool back down, which happens as fuel flows through and around them. With a non-return system, the amount of fuel flowing is just that used by the engine, whereas with a return system all of the fuel that the regulator is dumping back to the tank is having the effect of cooling the rail & injectors, so it takes longer for a non-return system to cool down than it does for a return one.

AIUI, the reason OEMs use non-return systems is to avoid heating up the fuel in the tank and thus reduce vapor pressure and evaporative emissions. In this application we *want* that heat to transfer to the fuel, because it cools the rail & injectors.

One of my future projects is to try to measure the change in dead time in the MS and trim it out of the fuel calculations. TK and I played with using a current sensor to measure dead time directly, but the quick-hack circuit we put together had too much noise in it to be useful. Hooking it up properly (short wires, proper connectors, no test clips, etc) might work. If not, then the fallback is to put a thermocouple on the injector and try to infer the dead time from that.

--Ian
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:50 PM   #287
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Lies.
8.6:1 in the motor, standard for pump gas builds for us. It runs the same timing at ~18psi as my old 10:1 motor did at 10psi. It's amazing how much additional detonation resistance the coatings provide.

I may play with a drainback valve, but I'm not necessarily opposed to letting the bottom end breathe through the bottom of the can. It's a long way for that oil to travel all the way up the hose, up the catch can, and into the turbo intake. I'll have to ask the Radium guys about that.

The new fuel system will be the same config as the old - all I'm doing is moving the FPR down from the tank to the fuel filter location. It's still a single feed line going up to the front with no dedicated return from the rail. I really, really don't want to plumb the car with a hardline for a return system. If I have to do it, so be it, but I'll try not to.

I'll do a Hella SSR parts kit with some instructions and MS3 settings, yes. I may actually do the SSR before the FPR and get some fuel pressure vs. open loop DC% data. With a big FPR, I actually have no use for the SSR, but stock FPR guys on even a DW200 will see improved idle and low-RPM driveability from using an SSR and open-loop fuel pump control. I have a weird little cold lean spot right at 2500rpm that I can't seem to tune around, and I'm pretty sure it's right where the fuel pressure drops back down from an artificial plateau (FPR blown wide open). No data to back that up, just my guess, but I'll see if it goes away with the Hella SSR.

The Treadstone core ran dramatically higher IATs and had a lot more pressure drop across the core than the Precision 350, and the Precision is cheap enough that it's not worth trying to hassle with putting my own endtanks on the Treadstone cores (I was buying 18x12s and cutting them in half). I'll do custom brackets on the Precision to make them plug-and-play and then build off that for the IC pipe kits.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:25 PM   #288
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Interesting about the treadstone IC 18psi and I noticed it when we were checking your car out. He said to me " I thought he was running precision but that looks like a treadstone." I am looking at IC upgrades currently.
Thanks for all the r&d!
It was a pleasure to meet you, I sat next to you at Baja Cantina. One day I will likely upgrade to your kit and maybe even get some "Emilio rims"
Carlos
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Old 10-07-2016, 09:43 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
The stock VVT coils are just starting to hesitate at 220kpa, so it's time for an ignition upgrade. D585 coils are the obvious option, and something I've been meaning to do for a long time. We will do a kit similar to our Toyota coil kits which will pair used D585 coils with a good bracket, PnP wires, and a wire-by-color wiring harness.
That's awesome and I'm definitely interested.

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plumb it using the same OEM-style Dorman fittings I used to plumb the flex fuel sensor up front.
I'm curious about this, many people upgrade to AN fittings and lines, but how much pressure will the OEM "quick connect" style fittings hold? That's currently what I have going to my NB fuel rail feed. My original plan was to get a fuellab FPR and plumb it all AN with hardline to AN adapters, but I have a feelings that's really just overkill. I can't really see myself going over 20 ish psi (so 63.5psi @ the rail). Seems like hose barbs with proper SAE 30R9 high pressure hose would be perfectly acceptable (but admittedly less "trick"). 30R9 is rated for like 180 psi.
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Old 10-08-2016, 03:44 AM   #290
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The stock VVT coils are just starting to hesitate at 220kpa, so it's time for an ignition upgrade.
They shouldn't at that power level. Upgrade to NGK BKR8EIX plugs if you haven't. They are magical.
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Old 10-08-2016, 11:05 PM   #291
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They shouldn't at that power level. Upgrade to NGK BKR8EIX plugs if you haven't. They are magical.
Using BKR6E-11s, had two separate sets do it on two separate cars at the same boost level. 8s are awfully cold.
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Old 10-09-2016, 12:36 AM   #292
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I run Bkr7e with stock 99 coils close to 230 kpa top end, no problem. I am curious about trying Bkr7eix even though they are $10 a pop, such a fine electrode and gapped at .031.
I highly recommend at least heat range 7.
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Old 10-09-2016, 12:39 AM   #293
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But then, my intercooler sucks.
Still we had problems with NigelT's car and another one on here who weren't running 7 heat range gapped .035 or less.

Last edited by sonofthehill; 10-09-2016 at 12:40 AM. Reason: Drunken typo
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Old 10-09-2016, 12:42 AM   #294
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Y'all need d585s. Cheaper than replacement VVT coils and so much more powerful.
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Old 10-09-2016, 12:50 AM   #295
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Aidan speaks the truth.
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Old 10-09-2016, 11:22 AM   #296
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Using BKR6E-11s, had two separate sets do it on two separate cars at the same boost level. 8s are awfully cold.
I can confirm that the BKR6E-11s would misfire on my car at 220kPa. The BKR8E-IX solved the misfire immediately with absolutely no side effects at - the car starts like a champ down to 35F (hey it's Greece - that's COLD for us!) with no issues at all.

Just trust me on this and try them out.
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Old 10-09-2016, 11:42 AM   #297
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you could always try them in a 6 heat range, im assuming the difference is in copper vs iridium than the heat range.
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Old 10-09-2016, 12:58 PM   #298
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I can confirm that the BKR6E-11s would misfire on my car at 220kPa. The BKR8E-IX solved the misfire immediately with absolutely no side effects at - the car starts like a champ down to 35F (hey it's Greece - that's COLD for us!) with no issues at all.

Just trust me on this and try them out.
Welp. I just grabbed a set of them from Amazon for $27. I'll report back with how well that work around 220kpa & stock NA coils.
What are you gapping them to?
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Old 10-09-2016, 01:25 PM   #299
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I can confirm that the BKR6E-11s would misfire on my car at 220kPa. The BKR8E-IX solved the misfire immediately with absolutely no side effects at - the car starts like a champ down to 35F (hey it's Greece - that's COLD for us!) with no issues at all.
Interesting, I will give those a shot.
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Old 10-09-2016, 01:43 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
I can confirm that the BKR6E-11s would misfire on my car at 220kPa. The BKR8E-IX solved the misfire immediately with absolutely no side effects at - the car starts like a champ down to 35F (hey it's Greece - that's COLD for us!) with no issues at all.

Just trust me on this and try them out.
Can confirm same results. I feel 8 heat range is needed over 200kpa.

Colorado Data point
225kpa, EFR 6758, 10.5:1 static, Co **** 91

Toyota COP : BKR6E's would break up gapped .030, switched to BKR8E's gapped same and it went away magically.
D585s : Can run the BKR8E's gapped at .040 with no issues. Started just fine this morning at 34*F 8ms cranking dwell.
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