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Old 01-03-2013, 05:16 PM   #301
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If I were painfully rich I'd have a large artillery ready at my estate for the poverty revolution.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:30 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by psreynol View Post
why are the states in the worst financial shape the anti gun states?
That's an interesting question. How are we defining "worst financial shape?"

Are we just talking about the state and local government sector (i.e. not households)? If so, I could probably see that being true thanks to the core Democrat bases of strong unions, especially given that private sector unions have been in decline so I could imagine increased... pandering? to the public sector unions.

Then again, many of the Old South states are historically gun friendly and survive largely thanks to the intra-state wealth redistribution system.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:34 PM   #303
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Then again, many of the Old South states are historically gun friendly and survive largely thanks to the intra-state wealth redistribution system.

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Old 01-03-2013, 05:48 PM   #304
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:52 PM   #305
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Be sure to write your representatives like olderguy if you haven't already. Especially for this other little bit of legislation creeping in even on day 1 of the new congress



Quick link for writing: http://www.congress.org/congressorg/...046526&type=ML
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:15 PM   #306
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I get a 404, what petition where you linking too
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:55 PM   #307
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I was not aware that an AR long rifle was not even involved the the most recent tragic shooting


Rifle found in Lanza's trunk not a Bushmaster
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:25 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by MD323 View Post
I get a 404, what petition where you linking too
It was "moved" according the the website.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...zones/6RDGkxLK
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:53 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by psreynol View Post
I was not aware that an AR long rifle was not even involved the the most recent tragic shooting


Rifle found in Lanza's trunk not a Bushmaster
This is one aspect of the internet I can't stand. Any jo-blo can get published on some off the wall "news" site like this or the examiner and people start believing. They write articles and blog posts about conspiracy theories based on the trickel news. Meaning as events are unfolding, untrue items are reported and a lot of misinformation is out there. Then people take these reports and start talking about how see they said this and never mention it again because the man is hiding it. Both the reports he quotes were within 48hrs of the event.

In this case, it is a horribly written article with missing information. He had 2 pistols on himself and an AR. The AR did a majority of the killing and he used a glock (I think) 10mm to end himself. The weapon in question was reported in his trunk from the beginning with a couple variations here and there. Idiots like the one who posted this article and half the people commenting are exactly the kind of people they use against us in the anti-gun argument.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:47 AM   #310
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Gunbattle on New York subway leaves 2 cops injured; 3rd cop shot elsewhere - U.S. News

Its sad that all these cities with the tightest gun control laws have the worst shootings. I worry that the sheep won't be able to see the plain facts that tighter gun control laws only stop law abiding citizens. Anyways, New York is off to an awesome start like Chicago.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:06 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
Gunbattle on New York subway leaves 2 cops injured; 3rd cop shot elsewhere - U.S. News

Its sad that all these cities with the tightest gun control laws have the worst shootings. I worry that the sheep won't be able to see the plain facts that tighter gun control laws only stop law abiding citizens. Anyways, New York is off to an awesome start like Chicago.
Thats why we need to ban all guns and do a round up/confiscation. Because then no one will have guns and all gun crime will be eliminated.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:20 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Tekel View Post
Thats why we need to ban all guns and do a round up/confiscation. Because then no one will have guns and all gun crime will be eliminated.
Not sure if serious...
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:21 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Tekel View Post
Thats why we need to ban all guns and do a round up/confiscation. Because then no one will have guns and all gun crime will be eliminated.
Can you imagine what a "round up/confiscation" would look like? And you thought the civil war was bad
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:58 AM   #314
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There must be something in the water that makes "you" all scared as hell of being killed by anyone at anytime...

Logic and cause-action is not high on the prio list either.
If an attempt to reduce a problem does not work immediately (or have a too small effect), it's seen as a proof that the remedy created the problem (or at least promotes it). I guess then that the legal system is to blame for creating the crimes in the first place...
We had a 50% reduction of DUIs one year in the area where I grew up, fantastic result of prevention? Nah, they just performed 50% less checks due to budget restrictions...

You have your history and should be proud of it, but don't be surprised if your neighbor sees you as the same threat as you see them.
Anyone can become mentally unstable, even you...

Sure, we have shootings here too, 99,501% of the cases with illegal guns between social misfits (I would not class them as gangs), but there is no acceptance whatsoever that the solution could be to arm the public, not even in the very restricted areas where it's a "problem".
We patch things up, give the misfits some more welfare, and continue with our lives.
I would assume that there are some small pockets in the US where they feel similarly (I've seen several individuals that were not packing heat on my visits).
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:02 AM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that NBC news story
“In recent weeks, we've heard some people say that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. But sometimes the good guys get shot – and sometimes, they are killed," the mayor said Thursday night from the hospital where the two officers wounded in the Brooklyn incident were recovering.

"Tonight, thank God, three good guys – three New York City police officers, who acted heroically – are going to make it. But we owe it to the good guys to do whatever we can to protect them – just as they do whatever they can to protect us. Instead, Washington is letting the bad guys shoot our police officers, our children, our neighbors – and it just has to stop."
I would genuinely love to hear from a gun control advocate like Bloomberg, who I am convinced is a genuinely intelligent human being, to better understand what he thinks Washington should do and how it will help reduce criminals shooting police and other innocent victims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
Its sad that all these cities with the tightest gun control laws have the worst shootings.
How are you coming up with that conclusion? I'm not saying you are wrong, just hadn't seen any source data on it by city (only by nation or US state).

I could believe it is probable, though. The cities with the strictest gun controls are probably more likely to have long-standing concentrated, low-income urban areas. I am more and more of the opinion that the greatest predictor of gun (and probably all) violence is those segregated urban areas of "permanent" low income/low employment.

Then again, you have some Southern and Midwest cities that probably have lax gun control laws and high murder rates.


Conversely, the Chicago and NYC gun violence rates do show that localized "gun control" is somewhat meaningless. Banning a thing in one city that is easily accessible outside of that city is very easy to circumvent. That's one of the arguments advocates use for a more comprehensive national policy.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:02 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
(I've seen several individuals that were not packing heat on my visits).
Are you in the habit of giving people full-body patdowns?
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:07 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Are you in the habit of giving people full-body patdowns?
You don't have to do it to that many to be able to use the word "several".
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:15 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
You don't have to do it to that many to be able to use the word "several".
To each his own. I usually just shake hands.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:19 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
I'm not saying you are wrong, just hadn't seen any source data on it by city (only by nation or US state).
Sweet jeezus. I found this CDC study with MSA breakdowns. Some of those numbers are kind of horrifying.

The national rate of gun-related homicides was 4.2 per 100,000 people for this data set. That really conceals how bad some of the cities are:
  • Newark, NJ = 25.4
  • City of Los Angeles, CA = 9.2
  • Chicago, IL = 11.6
  • Dallas, TX = 9.8
  • Philadelphia, PA = 20.0
  • Houston, TX = 12.9
  • Miami, FL = 23.7
  • Washington, DC = 19.0
  • Atlanta, GA = 17.2
  • Detroit, MI = 35.9
  • Oakland, CA = 26.6
  • St. Louis, MO = 24.1
  • Baltimore, MD = 29.7
  • Richmond, VA = 23.1
  • Milwaukee, WI = 13.5
  • New Orleans, LA = 62.1 (!)
  • Salt Lake City, UT = 1.9

Note that these are the specific cities inside the broader metropolitan statistical area. For example, the city of Houston is inside the MSA which incorporates Houston, Sugar Land and Baytown.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:37 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
There must be something in the water that makes "you" all scared as hell of being killed by anyone at anytime...
The only time I fear being killed by anyone at anytime is when I drive my car. I live in Florida and I believe we are rated 2 or 3 for the worst drivers.

However, I do realize that there is a small chance that at some point in my life I or someone else close to me may have their life threatened by another and I would like to be prepared to defend either myself or this third party.

Quote:
Logic and cause-action is not high on the prio list either.
If an attempt to reduce a problem does not work immediately (or have a too small effect), it's seen as a proof that the remedy created the problem (or at least promotes it). I guess then that the legal system is to blame for creating the crimes in the first place...
We had a 50% reduction of DUIs one year in the area where I grew up, fantastic result of prevention? Nah, they just performed 50% less checks due to budget restrictions...
While your point illustrates a common problem with many arguments it does not apply to this one. If you read the thread you will find mounds of data supporting that gun control does not work and it is not short term data. We are talking 30+ year spans with multiple countries around the globe.

The other underlying problem is that in the U.S. we don't give up our individual rights for the "good of the many" as everyone else in the free world seems to do.

Quote:
You have your history and should be proud of it, but don't be surprised if your neighbor sees you as the same threat as you see them.
Anyone can become mentally unstable, even you...
I don't see my neighbor as a threat unless he gives me a reason too. I don't know if you are viewing us as paranoid or something but it is quite the opposite. Most people in this thread that carry probably never expect to have to pull their gun in a real situation. They just aren't naive enough to think that the police are better at protecting them in the event of a dire situation than they are themselves. It's called hoping for the best and being prepared for the worst.

Quote:
Sure, we have shootings here too, 99,501% of the cases with illegal guns between social misfits (I would not class them as gangs), but there is no acceptance whatsoever that the solution could be to arm the public, not even in the very restricted areas where it's a "problem".
We patch things up, give the misfits some more welfare, and continue with our lives.
We have these areas in our country as well and they have been discussed in this thread. By your own admission you just mask the problem and admit that you have been unable to dearm these areas.

Quote:
I would assume that there are some small pockets in the US where they feel similarly (I've seen several individuals that were not packing heat on my visits).
Of course, there are areas like this in the U.S. If there were not, this would not even be a debate.

EDIT: It is also their choice not to carry. I am completely okay with that decision. What I am not okay with is anyone else's delusion that they have the ability to take away my choice.
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