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Old 07-31-2013, 01:14 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Enginerd View Post
Meh. I feel that it is equally wrong for a police officer to incriminate an civilian who has done nothing wrong as it is for a civilian to videotape and incriminate a police officer. I feel that the rebuttal to this would be that the police officer should know the law better than the civilian, and that attempting to expose and record police violations of the law draws awareness to their human nature and deficiency in training/knowledge.
police work for us, they are public officers that are to be held accountable for their actions, they work in public spaces and no assumption to privacy, and are to work within the limits of the law [not the spirit of the law as one officer put it to me]. If they are doing everything correct/legal, they should have absolutely nothing to fear. [This argument works here because they are public servants, not private citizens while on duty. It does not work for the NSA.]

The purpose of these videos is not to test the knowledge of the law of police, it's to show the disregard police have of the law and the Constitution, how jaded they are, that they treat US citizens as second class, that they bully, that they lie, and that they do whatever it takes to find something to charge people with not to serve and protect but to enforce and collect.

Police should protect us from harm, protect our property, and keep the peace. instead they are legally allowed to injure/kill, rob citizens blind through forfeiture and penalties, and most cases of interaction cause more harm than good. They are the Button Men of the state and I'm having an abortion Michael, an abortion.
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Old 07-31-2013, 01:38 PM   #102
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Well stated. I'm beginning to see the light.

In other words, there should be no issue with anyone if I want to photograph or videotape the government buildings and employees that I pay for to serve me.
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Old 07-31-2013, 01:54 PM   #103
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or open carrying. or doing anything that's perfectly legal.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:27 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Enginerd View Post
Well stated. I'm beginning to see the light.

In other words, there should be no issue with anyone if I want to photograph or videotape the government buildings and employees that I pay for to serve me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enginerd View Post
Meh. I feel that it is equally wrong for a police officer to incriminate an civilian who has done nothing wrong as it is for a civilian to videotape and incriminate a police officer. I feel that the rebuttle to this would be that the police officer should know the law better than the civilian, and that attempting to expose and record police violations of the law draws awareness to their human nature and deficiency in training/knowledge.
Incriminate: Make (someone) appear guilty of a crime or wrongdoing; strongly imply the guilt of (someone).

I'm not trying to be pedantic by nit-picking your word choice, but I think it's helpful to think about. If a person is doing something legal and asserts their legal rights while a police officer is or is attempting to violate those legal rights... The only person being incriminated is the police officer - by their own actions because they are actually guilty of a wrongdoing (if not always a crime).

I understand the initial empathy with the officers and I don't always agree with the intentional agitation techniques used by some of the photographers, but I believe that those videos and the news coverage of the aggression of the police and the push to make them into urban commandos rather than civil servants is important.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:47 PM   #105
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I think the common excessive deference towards police is indicative of a larger problem, the overall deference towards gov't in general.

The funny thing is the Doublethink (being comfortable with Cognitive Dissonance, or two contradictory thoughts). Most don't trust the average politician, and yet, they trust the gov't.

In the documentary "I am Fishead", Philip Zimbardo said something that was very memorable.
Quote:
Not enough people distinguish between just and unjust authority.
Witness the common expression, "It's the law!" As if all laws are just.

Zimbardi was the guy who did the famous Stanford Prison Experiment:
The Stanford Prison Experiment: A Simulation Study of the Psychology of Imprisonment
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:48 PM   #106
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I am Fishead:



Where it misses the mark, is that gov't attracts psychopaths just like big corporations do, with more far-reaching consequences. Some of the interviewees touch on it though, such as about the ignoble Patriot Act.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:49 PM   #107
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Former Cops Speak Out About Police Militarization

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. Older and retired cops don't seem to like were policing is headed. (This is a generalization and an observation -- I haven't taken any polls.) Younger cops, who are nudging policing in a more militaristic direction, are naturally fine with it.

...

Police concerns about being outgunned may be a self-fulfilling prophecy and increasingly leads to local and state bureaucrats engaging in what lifetime appointed government workers do best: mission creep.

If not expressly prohibited, police managers will continually push the arms race. Their professional literature is predominately based on the acquiring and use of newer weapons and more aggressive techniques to physically overwhelm the public. In many cases, however, this is the opposite of smart policing.

Coupled with the paramilitary design of the police bureaucracy itself, the police give in to what is already a serious problem in the ranks: the belief that the increasing use of power against a citizen is always justified no matter the violation. The police don't understand that in many instances they are the cause of the escalation and bear more responsibility during an adverse outcome.
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:36 AM   #108
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Cleveland Police Disciplined In Deadly Chase - Business Insider
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:50 PM   #109
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Not sure how to categorize:

Utah sheriff's deputy arrested for beating his father after 'catching him having sex with his wife in son's bedroom' | Mail Online
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:59 PM   #110
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Good grief, Charlie Brown! Why on Earth would so many vehicles have been involved? I understand that three cities means multiple jurisdictions, but come on...
In November, about 60 police vehicles pursued the two suspects in a 25-minute chase spanning three cities. One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times.
That is probably politics and probably understandable, based on the headline but not having read the actual article yet.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:28 PM   #111
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That is probably politics and probably understandable, based on the headline but not having read the actual article yet.
it's just funny.

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Old 08-06-2013, 09:36 AM   #112
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:38 AM   #113
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Quote:
Caught on Tape: A young man pulled over for a muffler issue ends up cuffed and arrested. Cop caught threatening to kick the **** out of the young man.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:41 AM   #114
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:44 AM   #115
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:45 AM   #116
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A 60-year old businessman was attacked in the lobby of the JW Marriott hotel only 16 seconds after a police officer had interjected himself into a peaceful dispute regarding hotel services. It was all caught on video, evidence which contradicts the officer's story.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:49 AM   #117
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At around 1:30am my family and I were awaken by the sound of loud and aggressive banging at our front door. The Aggressive nature of the banging frightened us so I walked into the guest room that looks over the front of our house and was shocked when I saw 3 large Dekalb County Sheriff SUV's with large flood lights pointed at our house and windows.

when i walked back into the hallway the person that was banging at the door started yelling "i saw yo' *** open the door!" i responded "what is this about? why are you here?" the person then responded "I'm not telling you ****, what you think this is?" so at this point my brother woke up as well my mother. we all are petrified at the aggression coming from the sheriffs outside our door. We continue asking why they are here and they continue to refuse to tell us only occasionally saying "open the mother ******* door *****"

I call the police and tell the operator what is going on, and that I do not feel safe opening the door because they will not tell me why they are here and they are behaving extremely aggressive.

I specifically ask the operator if she would send the police captain to the scene to ensure that we would not be harmed when we open the door, she said ok.

I waited about another 20-25 minutes for police to show up. No police ever showed up.

My brother, mother and myself all went to the door and let the sheriffs know that we were going to open the door and come out.
My mother opens the door and steps out and says "I'm a Christian woman don't hurt my family" she was immediately hand cuffed.

The remainder of the sheriffs then entered my house and attacked me and my brother. One of the sheriffs drew a weapon and struck me with it on the head.

As I am laying facedown on the floor I am repeatedly kicked in the head and back and one of the sheriffs stood on my head with both feet.

The other sheriffs at this point are attacking my brother and threatening to Taser him if he says anything else.

It this point both myself and my brother are both pleading with the sheriffs to stop and asking why are we being handcuffed.

The sheriffs that entered my house entered illegally, I found out after they left from a family friend that they were here on an arrest warrant for my mother.

If that is the reason they were here, once they arrested my mother when she was outside, they had no reason to enter my home.

They did not have a search warrant.

The events took place on the first level of my home.

Sheriffs illegally searched my entire house and removed items from my mothers purse which are now missing including $48.

the sheriffs also verbally berated myself and my brother calling us "big mother *******, dumb asses, retarded *******"

and verbally threatened us saying "i wish i could cane y'all asses"

When Sargent Magee was asked by a family friend why this happened he responded "we did this because they made a scene filming us."
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:00 AM   #118
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Brain - On any of those video taped incidents, have you checked for follow-up to see if there is any disciplinary action laid out?
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:12 AM   #119
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only when there's a description in yt, I quote it. not ever much else to go by. that last one i posted is frightening though...
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:45 PM   #120
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13 Wisconsin officials raid animal shelter to kill baby deer named Giggles - Washington Times
Two weeks ago, Ray Schulze was working in a barn at the Society of St. Francis no-kill animal shelter in Kenosha, Wis., when officials swarmed the shelter with a search warrant.

“[There were] nine [Department of Natural Resources] agents and four deputy sheriffs, and they were all armed to the teeth,” Mr. Schulze told WISN 12. “It was like a SWAT team.”

They went in and euthanized* a baby deer that was going to be dropped off at a nature reserve the next day.



* Probably by putting a .223 round in its skull.
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