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Old 11-02-2011, 03:36 PM   #261
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All I know is I need to get me some food stamps.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:38 PM   #262
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(Posting from my phone.)

Both student loans and substidies to private campuses.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:52 PM   #263
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Both student loans and substidies to private campuses.
So you believe student loans should be eliminated? Before you answer, there is no getting out of a student loan. If you declare bankruptcy, you still owe money.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:58 PM   #264
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If gov't hadn't subsidized student loans, the universities would have had to keep prices lower.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:01 PM   #265
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But who's going to give a loan of that size to an 18 y/o with at best a shitty job and no credit history? Even at cheaper rates, college is still expensive, and we need Americans to go to college.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:15 PM   #266
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But who's going to give a loan of that size to an 18 y/o with at best a shitty job and no credit history? Even at cheaper rates, college is still expensive, and we need Americans to go to college.
You understand what you're arguing here, right? You can't have it both ways.

Either an education is so valuable that lenders will accept the risk, or it's not and they won't.

If it really is that valuable (as you indicate in your we need Americans to go to college claim), then lenders will offer reasonable terms as they do for cars, mortgages, and anything else in life, with the expectation that this valuable college degree will allow the recipient to earn enough money to repay the loan.

If, on the other hand, college degrees really aren't that valuable, then what needs to be adjusted is not the lender's reticence, but the actual cost of the product. When college attendance drops because kids can't get college loans, colleges and universities will be forced to lower their tuition.

One or the other, but not both. A college degree cannot be simultaneously so valuable that we cannot risk kids doing without it, but so worthless that no private lender would be willing to offer reasonable terms.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:29 PM   #267
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(Posting from my phone.)

Why aren't tuition rates getting cheaper? Isn't that the natural evolution since the demand and access is so great.

We give these loans and subsidies because we say education is important and to help student pay for expensive colleges. But did you consider its that same solution that has caused the tution rates to continye to climbs?

Its throwning gasoline on the fire.

Id go into more detail but im on phone.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:33 PM   #268
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(Posting from my phone.)

But let me ask. Would not a better solutio n be a system which gives schools incentives to keep tuition under control?
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:41 PM   #269
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I totally get what your saying Scott, if it's easier for people to get loans/grants to go to college, then more will go to college, and the price will go up with the demand. I guess what I would want to see happen is college to be more "streamlined". If you want to go to school now, you have to take a bunch of bullshit classes that probably provide little if any help in your field of choice. For instance, if you want to get a bachelors in Criminal Justice, you have to take many classes that have nothing to do with CJ but add to the price of going to school. What I would like to see happen is schools offer degrees that focus on the field of study that the degree is in. I understand you need some other classes, but not 2-4 semesters worth.
In short, having to take less classes to get your degree = less $ needed to go to school.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:42 PM   #270
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But let me ask. Would not a better solutio n be a system which gives schools incentives to keep tuition under control?
Yes, but what incentives? The only incentive people want is $ and we aren't exactly in a position to be handing out tax breaks left and right.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:44 PM   #271
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But who's going to give a loan of that size to an 18 y/o with at best a shitty job and no credit history? Even at cheaper rates, college is still expensive, and we need Americans to go to college.
To add to mgeoffriau's excellent posts, historically, many companies helped fund advanced educations of promising students. And there *were* many lending cos that made student loans.

The idea that "everyone must go to college" is silly. What use are the droves of Sociology and English majors' degrees today? They are >$100k in debt with no marketable skills. All because they were under the illusion that spending 4 years being indoctrinated by tenured bureaucrats who have never worked in the real world, will allow them a cushy, secure $100k/yr job in a farming coop.

You see, if you leave society and the free market alone, prices and costs and decisions of each of the millions of investors and businesspeople match supply and demand. Gov't economic mandates screw it up. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and politicians never consider unintended consequences.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:45 PM   #272
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I totally get what your saying Scott, if it's easier for people to get loans/grants to go to college, then more will go to college, and the price will go up with the demand. I guess what I would want to see happen is college to be more "streamlined".
The free market "streamlines" everything.
You keep on thinking that more gov't rules, or changing the rules, is the solution.
The correct solution is to leave society and the free market alone.

Whenever you involve gov't in the solution, always step back and think, what would a free society do?
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:59 PM   #273
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Not everybody should go to college. I went, didn't know where I was going with it and decided to bail, join the MC, and go back to school if I decide not to make a career of the mil.
I'm just saying college needs to change. See post #269.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:35 PM   #274
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And you make the assumption that the solution to all problems can only be effected from top-down control. This is "The Fatal Conceit" of Statists, Bureaucrats, and Socialists everywhere.

Order emerges spontaneously in society. That top-down control can do better, is a myth.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:41 PM   #275
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I totally get what your saying Scott, if it's easier for people to get loans/grants to go to college, then more will go to college, and the price will go up with the demand.
the price isnt going up because of demand, that's the problem.

ill explain later.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:42 PM   #276
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Order emerges spontaneously in society.
So your saying that in an Anarchist society (total lack of statism, bureaucracy or socialism) college tuition would not be a problem? I don't believe that would be the case.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:44 PM   #277
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So your saying that in an Anarchist society (total lack of statism, bureaucracy or socialism) college tuition would not be a problem? I don't believe that would be the case.
The issue is that you see college tuition as a "problem" that can be "solved," rather than as a trade-off of competing priorities.

No amount of government intervention will ever eliminate the laws of scarcity and opportunity cost.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:14 PM   #278
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and the current solution is exaggerating the problem.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:20 PM   #279
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after i uploaded this to photobucket it showed me an ad for saving up for your kids college tuition
hahaha
and yeah government student loans are a **** me **** you kinda thing
under these pos loans they can take away your liscense to practice say if you are a dentist for example. how the hell do you pay back the loan when they take away your job? It is like going out to the shed and braking your slave's leg's. Makes no sense.



i love what this thread has become
it just goes from topic to topic.
nothing is off topic here
haha


Last edited by jared8783; 11-02-2011 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:54 PM   #280
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