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Old 11-21-2012, 08:59 PM   #3381
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the government is self serving. helping the public is a hobby they half-heatedly attempt in order to throw off the scent.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:45 AM   #3382
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Great returns aren't so great if they default.
That is a very valid point. For what it's worth, though, Jefferson County and Orange County (back in the day) both made bond holders that held whole. Recovery rates on municipal bonds are most often north of 50%. That's a lot better than a default on equity.

There is no investment that is risk-free. There is only ever risk-adjusted return.

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Lost a year's salary on a Ponzi scheme that was rated 5 stars by Morning Star. Then I lost the same amount to our good friend and former governor Jon Corzine and MF Global.
I'll skip over the MF Global portion but the 5-star rated ponzi scheme smells of BS. What mutual fund or stock that was rated 5-stars by Morning Star turned out to be an illegal fraud?
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:11 PM   #3383
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I'll skip over the MF Global portion but the 5-star rated ponzi scheme smells of BS. What mutual fund or stock that was rated 5-stars by Morning Star turned out to be an illegal fraud?
Wow, I don't remember the last time someone called me a liar. You'd need to ask yourself what would be my motivation for lying? Tall tale? Even more so, why would you want to call me a liar? Interesting...

Good Times Fund, Robert Stinson, class action by the receiver against MorningStar is pending.

Happy Thanksgiving
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:59 PM   #3384
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Wow, I don't remember the last time someone called me a liar. You'd need to ask yourself what would be my motivation for lying? Tall tale? Even more so, why would you want to call me a liar? Interesting...

Good Times Fund, Robert Stinson, class action by the receiver against MorningStar is pending.

Happy Thanksgiving
Your Funds: 'Ratings' aren't much better than 'hot tips' : Memphis Commercial Appeal
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:28 AM   #3385
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Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Wow, I don't remember the last time someone called me a liar. You'd need to ask yourself what would be my motivation for lying? Tall tale? Even more so, why would you want to call me a liar? Interesting...

Good Times Fund, Robert Stinson, class action by the receiver against MorningStar is pending.

Happy Thanksgiving
It was less about me thinking you were being intentionally deceptive and more about me thinking you were misunderstanding something.


It turns out I was the one with the misunderstanding as I had no idea Morningstar gave star ratings to hedge funds. I stand corrected.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your experience. Due dilligence with non-'40 Act funds is extremely important. Using Morningstar ratings for open-end mutual funds and stocks is iffy enough; no advisor or due dilligence desk worth their pay should use them to recommend a hedge fund.

I also wish the ******** behind both funds would serve legitimate prison time but they probably won't.

Last edited by Scrappy Jack; 11-23-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:10 PM   #3386
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It was less about me thinking you were being intentionally deceptive and more about me thinking you were misunderstanding something.


It turns out I was the one with the misunderstanding as I had no idea Morningstar gave star ratings to hedge funds. I stand corrected.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your experience. Due dilligence with non-'40 Act funds is extremely important. Using Morningstar ratings for open-end mutual funds and stocks is iffy enough; no advisor or due dilligence desk worth their pay should use them to recommend a hedge fund.

I also wish the ******** behind both funds would serve legitimate prison time but they probably won't.
Thanks Jack. Unsuprisingly, Stinson is in jail and Corzine is probably on the links with Obama.
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Old 11-23-2012, 02:00 PM   #3387
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and Corzine is probably on the links with Obama.
We finally have an honest Governor in my state. Hopefully we can do that on a National level soon.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:00 PM   #3388
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Do You Live in a Death Spiral State? - Forbes

I live in California, a one-party state that will soon be bailed out by all the others. We're now living deep in the second term of Obama, where cap & trade is a reality, the untaxed majority votes for higher taxes and Governor Moonbeam has promised to reign in the excessive overreach of his own party. Yep, we're screwed.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:27 PM   #3389
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:38 PM   #3390
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why is there an apostrophe after Ricks?

Curious: in 16 years, when a republican finally gets back in office, and the other news outlets like abc, nbc, and cnn start criticizing the president and other things that happen...can I too then say those news media outlets are the wings of the liberals?

is that not how it works?
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:59 PM   #3391
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why is there an apostrophe after Ricks?

Curious: in 16 years, when a republican finally gets back in office, and the other news outlets like abc, nbc, and cnn start criticizing the president and other things that happen...can I too then say those news media outlets are the wings of the liberals?

is that not how it works?
Funny you say abc, nbc, cnn when the real left wing station is msnbc. I guess if you don't adopt a company policy of hate and anger targeting while people you are then a left wing liberal?
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:24 PM   #3392
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I wish everyone would stop claiming that (insert name of news outlet) has an (insert school of political thought) agenda.

To the extent that any media organization exhibits an editorial bias, this is done solely for the purpose of attracting viewers / listeners / readers of a specific demographic which that organisation believes will be valuable to its advertisers.

CNN isn't trying to change the world or bring down the president. They're trying to sell advertising space. Same goes for FOX News, the Washington Post, MSNBC, the New York Times, etc.

Individual journalists might, to some extent or another, attempt to perform actual journalism from time to time. But this is largely irrelevant.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:57 PM   #3393
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I wish everyone would stop claiming that (insert name of news outlet) has an (insert school of political thought) agenda.

To the extent that any media organization exhibits an editorial bias, this is done solely for the purpose of attracting viewers / listeners / readers of a specific demographic which that organisation believes will be valuable to its advertisers.

CNN isn't trying to change the world or bring down the president. They're trying to sell advertising space. Same goes for FOX News, the Washington Post, MSNBC, the New York Times, etc.

Individual journalists might, to some extent or another, attempt to perform actual journalism from time to time. But this is largely irrelevant.
I wont try to sound smart, I will just let John Stewart explain.

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Old 11-26-2012, 08:00 PM   #3394
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Yeah, what do I know? I've only designed and built the studios for some of the highest-rated radio news stations in the country.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:02 PM   #3395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I wish everyone would stop claiming that (insert name of news outlet) has an (insert school of political thought) agenda.

To the extent that any media organization exhibits an editorial bias, this is done solely for the purpose of attracting viewers / listeners / readers of a specific demographic which that organisation believes will be valuable to its advertisers.
Well sure.

But is this really any better? In practical terms, what's the difference between FOX News executives being sincere right-wing ideologues, or simply being opportunistic TV executives targeting a specific demographic? It works out the same way, right?
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:09 PM   #3396
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Yeah, what do I know? I've only designed and built the studios for some of the highest-rated radio news stations in the country.
Not sure how building a high rating radio station makes you more informed then anyone else.

Glenn Beck was an every day morning shock jock that couldn't get the ratings so he switched it to super right wing nut job. I know it's an act and he's the same as Howard Stern, problem is the people that listen to him think everything he says is true and their going to take our guns.

All news organizations need to be help more accountable for what they say. People that get there news only from Fox news are the most uninformed people in the country.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:10 PM   #3397
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Saw this post this morning and thought it was interesting. Again, nothing we don't already know, but some good examples (and some marginal ones).

The statisticians at Fox News use classic and novel graphical techniques to lead with data

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Depending on where you land in the political spectrum you may either love or despise Fox News. But regardless of your political affiliation, you have to recognize that their statisticians are well-trained in the art of using graphics to persuade folks of a particular viewpoint. Iím not the first to recognize that the graphics department uses some clever tricks to make certain points. But when flipping through the graphs I thought it was interesting to highlight some of the techniques they use to persuade. Some are clearly classics from the literature, but some are (as far as I can tell) newly developed graphical ďpersuasionĒ techniques.

Truncating the y-axis



(via)

and



(via)

This is a pretty common technique for leading the question in statistical graphics, as discussed here and elsewhere.

Numbers that donít add up

Iím not sure whether this one is intentional or not, but it crops up in several places and I think is a unique approach to leading information, at least I couldnít find a reference in the literature. Basically the idea is to produce percentages that donít add to one, allowing multiple choices to have closer percentages than they probably should:



(via)

or to suggest that multiple options are all equally likely, but also supported by large percentages:



(via)

Changing the units of comparison

When two things are likely to be very similar, one approach to leading information is to present variables in different units. Here is an example where total spending for 2010-2013 is compared to deficits in 2008. This can also be viewed as an example of not labeling the axes.



(via)

Changing the magnitude of units at different x-values

Here is a plot where the changes in magnitude at high x-values are higher than changes in magnitude at lower x-values. Again, I think this is actually a novel graphical technique for leading readers in one direction.



(via)

To really see the difference, compare to the graph with common changes in magnitude at all x-values.



(via)

Changing trends by sub-sampling x values (also misleading chart titles)

Here is a graph that shows unemployment rates over time and the corresponding chart with the x-axis appropriately laid out.





(via)

One could argue these are mistakes, but based on the consistent displays of data supporting one viewpoint, I think these are likely the result of someone with real statistical training who is using data in a very specific way to make a point. Obviously, Fox News isnít the only organization that does this sort of thing, but it is interesting to see how much effort they put into statistical graphics.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:08 PM   #3398
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Im watching bill o rielly right now. I love his talking points...im about to donate to gop now.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:18 PM   #3399
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Television stations use graphical devices to show statistics?!

As the saying goes, there are lies, there are damn lies and there are statistics.

I don't need any statistics to know we're headed in the wrong direction in this country. From a purely apolitical viewpoint, the government wastes money. From big to small, they just aren't efficient or effective, and they're the only entity where failure guarantees that more money will be spent the following year.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:38 AM   #3400
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Im watching bill o rielly right now. I love his talking points...im about to donate to gop now.
Watching Fox news will make you stupid.
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