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Old 08-03-2016, 10:45 AM   #6461
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Then why are you not going and enlisting now?
Because that's not what we're doing, as brian said.
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:37 PM   #6462
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I'd argue that ISIS can be fought with not just bullets and bombs, but ideas. I know that is an awfully squishy solution, but it is my opinion that teaming up with moderate muslims who are actively trying to bring about a reformation of sorts is a better long term solution than shooting them. After all, it's hard to kill an idea with a compelling narrative.

And, doing this does not require you go overseas, it just requires you to try and understand the issue and support those who are trying to fix the problem from the inside.
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As long as they are following the quran there is no reform.

“This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.” Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10

“God’s curse be upon the infidels! Evil is that for which they have bartered away their souls. To deny God’s own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers.” Quran 2:89-2:90

“Lord…Give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 2:286

“Lord…give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 3:147

“I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.” Quran 8:12

“Let not the unbelievers think they will ever get away. They have not the power so to do. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy…” Quran 8:59-60

“When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.” Quran 9:5

“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” Quran 9:73

“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.” Quran 9:123

“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

“He that chooses a religion over Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will be one of the lost.” Quran 3:85

“Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful – he that does this has nothing to hope for from Good – except in self-defense. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return.” Quran 3:28

“Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.

“Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: ‘Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'” Quran 22:19-20

“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

“Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise.” Quran 4:56

“Believers, know that the idolaters [non-Muslims] are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended.” Quran 9:28

“The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Bible] and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.” Quran 98:6
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Old 08-03-2016, 01:23 PM   #6463
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Same type of stuff as in the Old Testament. And there are plenty of passages in the New Testament that explicitly say everything in the Old Testament still applies.

Religion = suck
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Old 08-03-2016, 01:26 PM   #6464
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^Sounds a little wishy-washy. I think they just want to be friends.
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Old 08-03-2016, 01:27 PM   #6465
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Same type of stuff as in the Old Testament. And there are plenty of passages in the New Testament that explicitly say everything in the Old Testament still applies.

Religion = suck
Sources for the second part of your assertion?
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Old 08-03-2016, 02:34 PM   #6466
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Sources for the second part of your assertion?
Matthew 5:17-19

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.a 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.b 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commandsc and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

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Old 08-03-2016, 02:50 PM   #6467
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I'm not seeing it. Am I the only one?
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:07 PM   #6468
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There is also stuff in the New Testament showing Jesus to be violent, but you guys are smart. You know how to use the internet.

If you believe that book, it's not like anything I post is going to change your mind.
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:31 PM   #6469
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If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. Deuteronomy 13:7-12

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the [holy man] who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged. Deuteronomy17:12

Make ready to slaughter [the infidel’s] sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. Isaiah 14:21

Then I heard God say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.” Ezekiel 9:5

Keep [my holiday], for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die. Exodus 31:12-15

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. Leviticus 20:10

A [holy man’s] daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. Leviticus 21:9

But if [a girl wasn't a virgin on her wedding night] and evidence of the girl's virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father’s house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against God’s people by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil Deuteronomy 22:20-21

Cursed be he who does God’s work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. Jeremiah 48:10

Anyone who blasphemes God’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of [believers]. Leviticus 24:16

Anyone else who goes too near the [Holy Place] will be executed. Numbers 1: 51
Why don't modern Christians follow their bible? It's clearly in there. Gods command!

Or you know, maybe just that Christians don't view their book as infallible anymore and that it was written for a different time. Perhaps we let the muslim interpretation of their holy book go through the same process? I am not advocating sitting back and doing nothing, I am only pointing out that in order for the religion to no longer be a threat they need to modernize. I support that.
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Old 08-03-2016, 04:50 PM   #6470
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Why don't modern Christians follow their bible? It's clearly in there. Gods command!
I agree, christianity is also a joke and by that i'm including all the christians that pick and choose what to follow. If this holy book was written by the students of your god who are you to pick and choose what you want to follow? Who are you to choose whats correct and whats worth following and what to disregard? If you're going to disregard one thing, why not disregard another? Why not disregard all of it completely?
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Old 08-03-2016, 05:39 PM   #6471
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Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
Why don't modern Christians follow their bible? It's clearly in there. Gods command!

Or you know, maybe just that Christians don't view their book as infallible anymore and that it was written for a different time. Perhaps we let the muslim interpretation of their holy book go through the same process? I am not advocating sitting back and doing nothing, I am only pointing out that in order for the religion to no longer be a threat they need to modernize. I support that.
Perhaps it's just that Christians aren't out killing people in the name of lord Jesus Christ, anymore.
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Old 08-03-2016, 05:56 PM   #6472
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There were three different sets of laws set down at different times, the latter superseding the earlier. The last was set down by Jesus and superseded the previous, which was the law of Moses, as that had superseded the laws of Genesis. Jesus brought a new covenant, or new set of rules to the people. The Jews added and added ceremonial rules and harsh restrictions to the original ten commandments in much the same way our congress has added thousands of laws to our country outside of the intent of the original constitution. Sometimes, there needs to be a clarification, a reset, a need for modernization.

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One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
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“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:32 PM   #6473
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John Wesley taught a systematic approach to come to answers along these lines. It is now referred to as the Wesleyan Quadrilateral: In order of importance:

Scripture
Tradition
Reason
Experience

Those of the Wesleyan tradition do not blindly follow scripture, even though it is held to be divinely inspired.

I think this pretty much sums up my personal approach.
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:30 PM   #6474
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15 years ago doctors didn't know if fetuses could feel. Now they do. 30 years ago if a child was born at 28 weeks old, chances are you wouldn't make it. Luckily my nephew did make it 27 years ago, after getting down to 1 pound 12 ounces in the hospital. He's 6' 1" and has his own kid now. Both my boys were born early, at two months and one month respectively. Both quite viable. Just this year--this is kinda cute--scientists found that at the time of conception there is a chemical reaction that causes an actual light. Scientists can even judge the quality of the new cell by the intensity of the light. And of course now scientists can map the unique DNA of a fetus.

If life is precious, then the potential for life is important as well. It should reflect how we treat babies in the womb, just as it should reflect how we treat the elderly and infirmed.

On the other end of the spectrum, look at how the inner city thug culture treats children. Dad's don't stay, kids aren't encouraged to stay in school, and the cycle repeats. Look at how the Palestinians and ISIS treat their children. As cannon fodder and political pawns. Sanctity for life is a good start for a healthy society.

Last edited by cordycord; 08-09-2016 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 08-10-2016, 01:27 PM   #6475
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Personally i think that mothers should be allowed to choose what they do with the fetus that is growing inside of them especially in rape cases. If a mom doesnt want that kid then she should be able to end that life and in some cases after birth if the child is badly disabled.


I'm also for allowing disabled, sick, and elderly people to end their own life if they choose so.
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Old 08-10-2016, 01:31 PM   #6476
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abortions shouldn't be birth control.
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Old 08-10-2016, 01:41 PM   #6477
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abortions shouldn't be birth control.
From an idealistic standpoint, certainly. Abortions are costlier and riskier than most forms of contraception.

From a pragmatic standpoint, however, consider the alternative. Is abortion worse than people who don't want / can't afford to provide a proper environment (socially, economically, etc) for a child being forced to give birth? I ask this both from the point of view of the child, and of society as a whole.

The Roman Catholic Church, with its anti-abortion / anti-contraception policy, has done more to increase poverty and human suffering overall than any other single fascist regime in modern history.
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Old 08-10-2016, 02:13 PM   #6478
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From an idealistic standpoint, certainly. Abortions are costlier and riskier than most forms of contraception.

From a pragmatic standpoint, however, consider the alternative. Is abortion worse than people who don't want / can't afford to provide a proper environment (socially, economically, etc) for a child being forced to give birth? I ask this both from the point of view of the child, and of society as a whole.

The Roman Catholic Church, with its anti-abortion / anti-contraception policy, has done more to increase poverty and human suffering overall than any other single fascist regime in modern history.

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Old 08-10-2016, 03:02 PM   #6479
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abortions shouldn't be birth control.
I never said they should be however mistakes do happen, condoms rip, the pill doesnt always work. I'm not talking about a 9 month old abortion of a healthy baby here. However up to 3 months or so abortions should be possible with no questions asked.



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Old 08-10-2016, 04:13 PM   #6480
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Dana Volmer. Olympic swimmer -- and new mom -- Dana Vollmer is determined to bring home gold at the 2016 Rio Games.

As much as I dislike the special interest stories during Olympic coverage, I thought the one about her was quite enjoyable.

Retired, had difficult pregnancy, had baby, came back.

Picture the story if she had said.... this blob is going to ruin my life. Kill it and get it out of me so I can go back to training.

Re: RCC and contraceptives. I do think the Biblical directive to "reproduce, multipy, fill the earth" has been met. Contraception makes sense to me... see post 6473. Abortion does not.

Most pro-life people would gladly give rape and life of mother in trade for abortion as contraceptive and eugenics.
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