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Old 09-27-2016, 08:25 AM   #6741
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only if you're willing to exchange it for 4 years...
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:58 AM   #6742
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Can i get my 90 minutes back?
I watched 5-8 minutes before I had to turn it off.
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:26 AM   #6743
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I thought Trump did well in the beginning but failed in the latter half. He missed some golden opportunities to lay the smack down. Killary was well prepared for this debate. She came off better polished and sounded believeable until you look into her content. More and more lies but she presents her lies better than Trump's ramblings.
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:55 AM   #6744
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I refuse to give either one of those two hacks my vote, and last night just further cemented that resolve.

There is a third choice; and the two men that represent that choice are reasonable human beings that are orders of magnitude more qualified than the two jokers on stage.

#JohnsonWeld
#LetGaryDebate
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:16 AM   #6745
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I didn't want to watch but felt obligated.

They are both hacks. He's an idiot, she's a lying robot.

We are screwed since the "non-profit nonpartisan" debate commitee won't let Gary Johnson debate.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:16 AM   #6746
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Even if he debates, no one is going to vote for him.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:29 AM   #6747
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Even if he debates, no one is going to vote for him.
I disagree. I will grant you that he is unlikely to get the votes necessary to win, but that hardly makes those voters "nobody." Just my opinion of course.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:37 AM   #6748
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Between the two professional liars who are the only "viable" candidates, and the fact that I'm in just about the furthest thing from a swing state, I'm having a hard time taking seriously the argument that my vote counts and that I should exercise my right to vote regardless.

The only things that still gets me to the voting booth are local elections that (1) might actually come down to a handful of votes, and (2) the results of which might have a dramatic influence in my actual day to day life.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:59 AM   #6749
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I disagree. I will grant you that he is unlikely to get the votes necessary to win, but that hardly makes those voters "nobody." Just my opinion of course.
a vote for Gary is just a vote for Hilary/Trump.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:04 AM   #6750
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a vote for Gary is just a vote for Hilary/Trump.
No it is a vote for Gary.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:06 AM   #6751
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a vote for Gary is just a vote for Hilary/Trump.
1+1=potato
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:16 AM   #6752
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a vote for Gary is just a vote for Hilary/Trump.
Do the votes of the majority make a functional difference in outcome when countered by an ignorant and tyrannical majority? Not really. One of the shortcomings of representative democracy...

But you can still control your own voice.

A vote for Trump is a vote for deprivation of liberty by way of expanded policing powers.

A vote for Hillary is a vote for deprivation of liberty by way of congressional and executive action.

A vote for Johnson is a vote for enhancement of individual liberty.

I'd think that you, of all people, would appreciate this distinction.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:19 AM   #6753
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I'm going to simply vote against Hillary...if I bother at all.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:28 AM   #6754
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I have lived in NM nearly my entire life. Gary Johnson is a ******* idiot who did nothing for NM. He tripled the state deficit and climbed mountains. Big ******* whoop.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:30 AM   #6755
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Gary Johnson is a ******* idiot who did nothing for NM. He tripled the state deficit and climbed mountains. Big ******* whoop.
So, basically, he's Putin.

Given the mainstream opposition, that might not be the worst choice.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:41 AM   #6756
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only if you're willing to exchange it for 4 years...

Debate observations: Hillary has received voice coaching between her debates with Sanders and last night. She was careful not to fall into the shrill, grating tone that often characterized her voice in the past. Her monologues were very scripted, practiced, stiff, and patronizing. The "my father was a seamster" bit was especially patronizing. Moreso the narrative she attempted to weave tying her father's work to Trump's business dealings. That was worth an eyeroll. I see that as an obvious play to the portion of her base that is overly emotional but has the reasoning skill of a 4th grader.

Trump was Trump. He was often impatient, not waiting his turn. His answers were unscripted and off the cuff. He was more respectful than I expected, usually referring to her as "Secretary Clinton" while she always referred to him as "Donald" and never "Mr. Trump" or anything formal. He repeated himself a few times, which seems to be common for him. He didn't appear as foolish as I expected.

The substantive parts of the debate that caught my attention were Trump's interest in reducing corporate taxes to levels on par with the rest of the developed world and Clinton's desire to increase them. I know lower corporate taxes yield growth. However, Trump's proposal to increase tariffs on foreign goods to match tariffs or VAT by other countries on our goods contains possible pitfalls. A tariff on foreign goods will drive up the cost of items for the American consumer, unless it is just a negotiating tool used to push other countries to reduce their tariffs against American goods. If this is the case, it could be a boon to American companies selling products overseas and domestic prices for imported goods will not increase. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

I have not yet read or listened to anyone else's take on the debates. I wanted to record my own thoughts before being influenced by others.
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:14 PM   #6757
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Who has the mother of all hangovers?



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Old 09-27-2016, 12:16 PM   #6758
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I'm just looking forward to using "cyber" as a noun from now on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Donald
So we have to get very, very tough on cyber and cyber warfare. It is a, it is a huge problem. I have a son. He's 10 years old. He has computers. He is so good with these computers, it's unbelievable. The security aspect of cyber is very, very tough. And maybe it's hardly doable. But I will say, we are not doing the job we should be doing, but that's true throughout our whole governmental society. We have so many things that we have to do better, Lester, and certainly cyber is one of them.
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:17 PM   #6759
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Debate observations: Hillary has received voice coaching between her debates with Sanders and last night. She was careful not to fall into the shrill, grating tone that often characterized her voice in the past. Her monologues were very scripted, practiced, stiff, and patronizing. The "my father was a seamster" bit was especially patronizing. Moreso the narrative she attempted to weave tying her father's work to Trump's business dealings. That was worth an eyeroll. I see that as an obvious play to the portion of her base that is overly emotional but has the reasoning skill of a 4th grader.
Personally, I thought the analogy was on point. I own a business and a while ago one of our clients was a twin in mannerism and business paractices to the Donald. At the end of our contracted relationship he decided to **** us out of the remaining 20% by just not mailing payment because he just "didn't think we earned it". Because of the laws against allowing us to 'represent ourselves' in court (LLC) we would've been forced to hire counsel at a cost equaling or exceeding the amount he stiffed us. And then you still have to collect.

I'm guessing there's a lot of those 28 million small business owners who related 100% to her point without any eyeroll.

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Trump was Trump. He was often impatient, not waiting his turn. His answers were unscripted and off the cuff. He was more respectful than I expected, usually referring to her as "Secretary Clinton" while she always referred to him as "Donald" and never "Mr. Trump" or anything formal. He repeated himself a few times, which seems to be common for him. He didn't appear as foolish as I expected.
He was exactly as I expected him to be. If the debate lasted 15 minutes more I suspect he would've been trying to climb the lecturn. He has a serious problem with women who push back. Her tact of using his 1st name worked pretty good. High stakes game and he should be really pissed at himself for not taking the game seriously (debate). But I see he's already out there saying Lester Holt was to blame.

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The substantive parts of the debate that caught my attention were Trump's interest in reducing corporate taxes to levels on par with the rest of the developed world and Clinton's desire to increase them. I know lower corporate taxes yield growth. However, Trump's proposal to increase tariffs on foreign goods to match tariffs or VAT by other countries on our goods contains possible pitfalls. A tariff on foreign goods will drive up the cost of items for the American consumer, unless it is just a negotiating tool used to push other countries to reduce their tariffs against American goods. If this is the case, it could be a boon to American companies selling products overseas and domestic prices for imported goods will not increase. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out.
I'm not an economist but personally, I don't see how increasing costs of imported goods (I.E. VAT or Tariff) without having the already established capability to produce like goods does anything for the American worker. With respect to low tech mfg goods, the horse has left the barn folks...

Personally I didn't see anything substantive, from either candidate, that I hadn't seen earlier.

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I have not yet read or listened to anyone else's take on the debates. I wanted to record my own thoughts before being influenced by others.
My 2 cents...
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:29 PM   #6760
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I'm just looking forward to using "cyber" as a noun from now on.
You are late to the party, cyber has been a thing for some time now.
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