So, Governments and encroachment
12-19-2011, 05:43 PM
#21
And here's another example that just hit me. I hear a lot of people saying we should privatize the post office. You know what? The Netherlands and several other countries did that.
I don't know of one Dutch that doesn't long for the days of their old post office back. Granted, there may be differences with others, but all that I have talked to about it universally hate the privatized new system (The delivery schedule is so much worse, they cut back on so many post offices so I can't get to one anymore, it's so much more expensive to send packages, etc.) compared to the old public system.
I don't know of one Dutch that doesn't long for the days of their old post office back. Granted, there may be differences with others, but all that I have talked to about it universally hate the privatized new system (The delivery schedule is so much worse, they cut back on so many post offices so I can't get to one anymore, it's so much more expensive to send packages, etc.) compared to the old public system.
Oh wait -- it doesn't?
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12-19-2011, 05:45 PM
#22
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What I do know is the privatized corporation is constantly in trouble with violating the terms they signed with the Dutch government over trying to constantly reduce deliverys/service areas/et al in violation of their contract w/the government - even though they are making a hefty profit as is.
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12-19-2011, 05:55 PM
#23
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lulz at that PDF. Some of the section headings:
The Public Will Not Receive Full Value
Private Companies Often Engage in Risky Financial Schemes
The Public Will Not Receive Full Value
Inadequate Oversight Exists to Ensure the Public Interest is Protected
Good thing these problems don't exist with public spending.
The Public Will Not Receive Full Value
Private Companies Often Engage in Risky Financial Schemes
The Public Will Not Receive Full Value
Inadequate Oversight Exists to Ensure the Public Interest is Protected
Good thing these problems don't exist with public spending.
I don't know of one Dutch that doesn't long for the days of their old post office back. Granted, there may be differences with others, but all that I have talked to about it universally hate the privatized new system (The delivery schedule is so much worse, they cut back on so many post offices so I can't get to one anymore, it's so much more expensive to send packages, etc.) compared to the old public system.
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12-19-2011, 05:58 PM
#24
I don't know if the Dutch system required that originally, sorry. I do know it had significant differences from our system.
What I do know is the privatized corporation is constantly in trouble with violating the terms they signed with the Dutch government over trying to constantly reduce deliverys/service areas/et al in violation of their contract w/the government - even though they are making a hefty profit as is.
What I do know is the privatized corporation is constantly in trouble with violating the terms they signed with the Dutch government over trying to constantly reduce deliverys/service areas/et al in violation of their contract w/the government - even though they are making a hefty profit as is.
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12-19-2011, 05:58 PM
#25
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The actual numbers would disagree. See: Corporation making a hefty profit, and still trying to raise prices and cut service to increase profits even further - and most notably, against the contract they signed w/the government.
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12-19-2011, 05:59 PM
#26
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My argument against privatization involves monopoly or oligopoly situations.
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12-19-2011, 05:59 PM
#27
This is the binary thinking I often reference. If someone says "private sector spending can have significant corruption, waste and inefficiencies," it is not the same as saying "public sector spending is always (or even mostly) free of significant corruption, waste and inefficiencies."
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12-19-2011, 06:00 PM
#29
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If you can figure out a way to have privatization of roads with significant competition, I'm all ears.
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12-19-2011, 06:03 PM
#31
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Untrue. There are numerous monopolies and oligopolies that have arisen independent of the government. Microsoft is a great example of this, complete with abusive behavior, corruption, et al that you are complaining about in the 90s.
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12-19-2011, 06:03 PM
#32
By the way, I don't have to "figure out" how to have competition in the market. The market produces it -- if profits are available, individuals and companies will compete.
When the TV was invented, who could have "figured out" the various ways that content producers compete with each other for advertising money and subscription fees?
When the TV was invented, who could have "figured out" the various ways that content producers compete with each other for advertising money and subscription fees?
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12-19-2011, 06:07 PM
#34
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By the way, I don't have to "figure out" how to have competition in the market. The market produces it -- if profits are available, individuals and companies will compete.
When the TV was invented, who could have "figured out" the various ways that content producers compete with each other for advertising money and subscription fees?
When the TV was invented, who could have "figured out" the various ways that content producers compete with each other for advertising money and subscription fees?
What is your proposal to make them a place where competition can exist, and competing companies can all strive to bring a better product to a consumer?
This is where I don't "grok" what you are trying to say. It's one of the major disconnects I see with Block.
I find it extremely unrealistic to have, say, 3 highways right next to each other that can compete with each other. But, and I am certain you have driven at least as much as I have on our roads, in many cases there is only one or two viable routes to a place that isn't seriously contrived. How do you propose to address this?
Cliffs: My argument against privatization is against monopolistic and oligopolistic behavior
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12-19-2011, 06:49 PM
#36
Just got home from work. Going to keep this short because I'm dying to take a hot shower. Today was ******* blistering cold where I was working and I smashed my pinky finger in the rebar cutter. Thankfully no more than a bruised fingernail, but the cold made it throb like a bitch all day. lol
Without reading too much of whats been posted since the original post I read, this is what I'm disagreeing with.
You honestly believe that "government built" roads would be any better than private sector built roads? I mean really. What makes you think that a bunch suits in hardhats that know next to NOTHING about construction, handing over a check to some union workers that milk that job for every penny (and it was overpaid to begin with!) will produce a "better" job? Or better yet, what makes you think a private sector business couldn't do just as good of a job?
Government jobs ALWAYS overpay. Always. Sometimes the labor being billed wasn't even produced either! Its such a bullshit system that's in place and I hope to one day be a part of changing it actually.
I've worked hand and hand next to many different union trades and all of them have been 100% lacking in every department. All the private (most are family owned) sector contractors have such a different work moral and quality they bring to the table. Jobs are done faster because they aren't being over billed! There's pride with private sector businesses. The list goes on and on.
I await your response.
Without reading too much of whats been posted since the original post I read, this is what I'm disagreeing with.
You honestly believe that "government built" roads would be any better than private sector built roads? I mean really. What makes you think that a bunch suits in hardhats that know next to NOTHING about construction, handing over a check to some union workers that milk that job for every penny (and it was overpaid to begin with!) will produce a "better" job? Or better yet, what makes you think a private sector business couldn't do just as good of a job?
Government jobs ALWAYS overpay. Always. Sometimes the labor being billed wasn't even produced either! Its such a bullshit system that's in place and I hope to one day be a part of changing it actually.
I've worked hand and hand next to many different union trades and all of them have been 100% lacking in every department. All the private (most are family owned) sector contractors have such a different work moral and quality they bring to the table. Jobs are done faster because they aren't being over billed! There's pride with private sector businesses. The list goes on and on.
I await your response.
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12-19-2011, 06:51 PM
#37
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I don't know of one Dutch that doesn't long for the days of their old post office back. Granted, there may be differences with others, but all that I have talked to about it universally hate the privatized new system (The delivery schedule is so much worse, they cut back on so many post offices so I can't get to one anymore, it's so much more expensive to send packages, etc.) compared to the old public system.
Bob
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12-19-2011, 06:56 PM
#38
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Just got home from work. Going to keep this short because I'm dying to take a hot shower. Today was ******* blistering cold where I was working and I smashed my pinky finger in the rebar cutter. Thankfully no more than a bruised fingernail, but the cold made it throb like a bitch all day. lol
Without reading too much of whats been posted since the original post I read, this is what I'm disagreeing with.
You honestly believe that "government built" roads would be any better than private sector built roads? I mean really. What makes you think that a bunch suits in hardhats that know next to NOTHING about construction, handing over a check to some union workers that milk that job for every penny (and it was overpaid to begin with!) will produce a "better" job? Or better yet, what makes you think a private sector business couldn't do just as good of a job?
Government jobs ALWAYS overpay. Always. Sometimes the labor being billed wasn't even produced either! Its such a bullshit system that's in place and I hope to one day be a part of changing it actually.
I've worked hand and hand next to many different union trades and all of them have been 100% lacking in every department. All the private (most are family owned) sector contractors have such a different work moral and quality they bring to the table. Jobs are done faster because they aren't being over billed! There's pride with private sector businesses. The list goes on and on.
I await your response.
Without reading too much of whats been posted since the original post I read, this is what I'm disagreeing with.
You honestly believe that "government built" roads would be any better than private sector built roads? I mean really. What makes you think that a bunch suits in hardhats that know next to NOTHING about construction, handing over a check to some union workers that milk that job for every penny (and it was overpaid to begin with!) will produce a "better" job? Or better yet, what makes you think a private sector business couldn't do just as good of a job?
Government jobs ALWAYS overpay. Always. Sometimes the labor being billed wasn't even produced either! Its such a bullshit system that's in place and I hope to one day be a part of changing it actually.
I've worked hand and hand next to many different union trades and all of them have been 100% lacking in every department. All the private (most are family owned) sector contractors have such a different work moral and quality they bring to the table. Jobs are done faster because they aren't being over billed! There's pride with private sector businesses. The list goes on and on.
I await your response.
What I don't understand is what it has to do with my base argument ("The highways would have not been built without federal funding"), and as a result, the benefit to the US as you said you are only arguing with the OP in this post.
Didn’t realize they did that. Maybe that explains why when I ordered something from Holland in 2008 it took 4 days to arrive at my door and the tracking worked the whole time. Ordered the same thing this year and it took 4 weeks and disappeared from tracking in the transfer to USP. I thought it was lost but they wouldn’t allow me to file anything saying I didn’t get my package for 30 days.
Bob
Bob
P.S. Going back to the Netherlands and Germany in February. I'll be able to get more feedback on it then and see if it's improved or not in their perception.
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12-19-2011, 06:57 PM
#39
I don't know of one Dutch that doesn't long for the days of their old post office back. Granted, there may be differences with others, but all that I have talked to about it universally hate the privatized new system (The delivery schedule is so much worse, they cut back on so many post offices so I can't get to one anymore, it's so much more expensive to send packages, etc.) compared to the old public system.
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