Current Events, News, Politics Keep the politics here.

Obama vs Civil Liberies - backlash

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-20-2011, 12:30 PM
  #1  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
JasonC SBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,420
Total Cats: 84
Default Obama vs Civil Liberies - backlash

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-obama/250159/
JasonC SBB is offline  
Old 12-20-2011, 03:31 PM
  #2  
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
Default

Where is this in the mass media? He underestimated the general intelligence of this nation and our disdain for statism outside of "the little square states" or south of the Mason Dixon (the Red River).
hustler is offline  
Old 12-20-2011, 03:51 PM
  #3  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
JasonC SBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,420
Total Cats: 84
Default

The mass media is not our watchdog, it's our gov't's lap dog.
JasonC SBB is offline  
Old 12-20-2011, 04:14 PM
  #4  
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,611
Total Cats: 25
Default

So, Jason, did you contact your congresscritter and express your hate for this bill? Hustly?
blaen99 is offline  
Old 12-20-2011, 04:59 PM
  #5  
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
matthewdesigns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: WNC
Posts: 1,648
Total Cats: 55
Default



I think this is the issue that will ultimately convince me not to vote for Obama again. This is just utterly unbelievable. If he signs it I'm probably going Ron Paul, or just won't vote (for the first time ever).
matthewdesigns is offline  
Old 12-20-2011, 05:05 PM
  #6  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
JasonC SBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,420
Total Cats: 84
Default

I don't know why so many people continue to believe that ANY candidate vetted by the mass media is anything but a puppet of the power elite.

Remember how Obama went from zero to hero aka "top tier" in days? The media ANOINT the Establishment-acceptable candidates.

P.S. blaen99: yes I did. My congressworm btw is as bad as they come wrt being pro welfare/warfare/big gov.
JasonC SBB is offline  
Old 12-20-2011, 07:02 PM
  #7  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,493
Total Cats: 4,080
Default

A write in vote for Ron Paul is a vote for obama.
Braineack is offline  
Old 12-20-2011, 08:58 PM
  #8  
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
matthewdesigns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: WNC
Posts: 1,648
Total Cats: 55
Default

But it is also neither a vote directly for Obama nor for whichever clown the Republicans actually put up. I acknowledge that it would be a throwaway vote, but for the first time I think I'm actually warming up to that idea.
matthewdesigns is offline  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:07 PM
  #9  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,493
Total Cats: 4,080
Default

every write-in/third party vote is pretty much a lost republican vote, and thus a vote for obama; this you must understand. If you seriously dont want him to be pres, you need to either not vote or vote for the republican nomination.

This is why G HW Bush lost his reelection.
Braineack is offline  
Old 12-21-2011, 12:02 AM
  #10  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,022
Total Cats: 6,589
Default

Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
The mass media is not our watchdog, it's our gov't's lap dog.
Trust me, the mass media is nobody's dog. With very few exceptions (eg: NPR, BBC) the principle function of every media outlet is to make money.
Joe Perez is offline  
Old 12-21-2011, 01:13 AM
  #11  
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,611
Total Cats: 25
Default

Originally Posted by Braineack
every write-in/third party vote is pretty much a lost republican vote, and thus a vote for obama; this you must understand. If you seriously dont want him to be pres, you need to either not vote or vote for the republican nomination.

This is why G HW Bush lost his reelection.
Brainy...Brainy...Man, I would have expected you realize those are myths :(. Myths that are predicate on your state actually being a split state, for that matter! (Not a single person posting here would have been able to affect the HW Bush elections, as an example.)

As for the HW Bush elections specifically....

Even tho ALL the evidence shows that without Ross Perot, Clinton would have certainly humiliated both George Bush Sr. AND Bob Dole worse than he did. I mean from polling right after Ross Perot dropped out(before reentry) in July '92 http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...prod=permalink showing Clinton LEADING WITH A MAJORITY the fact that throughout the campaign, in September '92, Clinton was still leading before Perot's reentry with far over 50 percent http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...prod=permalink as Bush polled exactly what he got in the general. and when Perot came back in October '92, polls showed Perot taking more from CLINTON http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/19921026.pdf See Bush polled in the polls with and without Perot exactly the same percent of the vote he actually got that year. So why does the myth still persist?
This myth is related to each of the others, and is usually followed closely by one of the other myths by way of explanation. "You're wasting your vote because... (fill in blank with one of the other myths)."

But how can voting for the candidate you most closely identify with be a wasted vote? Isn't compromising your beliefs on important issues really the wasted vote? Isn't settling for second best, or the lesser of two evils really the wasted vote?

The point of having a representative democracy is for each citizen to be able to effect the future of their community. Elections are the main mechanism for "we the people" to tell our representatives how we feel.

It is vitally important that when we make that statement, it is accurate. Sending the wrong message by compromising your vote lessens your ability to influence the direction of public policy.

Again, I ask you, which is the wasted vote - A vote for a major party candidate you despise because you despise the other guy a little bit more - or - A vote for a candidate who says what you'd say if you were running for office?
Annd...

Many of us who have voted for "third" party candidates have been unfairly blamed for electing the candidate we would least like to see in office.

The [il]logic goes like this: "If you vote Green, you're taking votes away from the Democrat, and helping the Republican win. If you vote Libertarian, you're taking votes away from the Republican and helping the Democrat."

If you assume that my "third" party vote is taking away from the Democrats or Republicans, you're assuming that those two parties somehow have a right to my vote. They do not.

My "third" party vote does not come from either major party, it comes from me. If it takes away from any statistic, it's the number of potential voters who've given up on elections because they never feel represented.

This is part of the whole "lesser of two evils" syndrome from which America suffers. It is closely related the myth of apathy, and is used to discourage people from voicing their true opinions.

Anything that discourages citizens from voicing their opinions, or voting their conscience, is a threat to free speech, and a threat to democracy.

More parties means that a wider variety of viewpoints is represented in an election. With more viewpoints represented we'll increase the number of potential voters who actually show up to vote. A vote for a "third" party candidate is not a vote for "the wrong" major party candidate. It is what it is: A vote for a "third" party candidate.

Last edited by blaen99; 12-21-2011 at 01:51 AM.
blaen99 is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 04:42 PM
  #12  
Elite Member
 
Sparetire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,642
Total Cats: 36
Default

Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Trust me, the mass media is nobody's dog. With very few exceptions (eg: NPR, BBC) the principle function of every media outlet is to make money.
Bingo. And untill the best money to be made is NOT with the sensationalistic bullshit being shoveled out, you will get all the crap we are so familiar with.

We can have horrible legislation passed night and day, but people will get the scoop on some out-of-context quote because thats what gets them tuning in and sells add revenue.

It beats gov run media, but it definitely has its issues.
Sparetire is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 07:25 PM
  #13  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
JasonC SBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,420
Total Cats: 84
Default

Oh so you don't think it's possible for media corporations' editors in chief to have certain general "editorial guidelines" put forth by the owners, despite having to remain competitive and make money? You don't think it's possible for business organizations to have making money as the primary purpose, but have the owners also have some say in dictating a couple of items be "off limits"?
JasonC SBB is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:42 PM
  #14  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,650
Total Cats: 3,011
Default

Originally Posted by blaen99
Brainy...Brainy...Man, I would have expected you realize those are myths :(.
Ross Perot, long time friend of Bill Clinton approaches him before the election and proposes that he helps him get elected by splitting the conservative vote in exchange for political favor upon election. If the Democrats have Nader or some other nut garner enough support to split their vote the same thing would happen to them in the upcoming election. Same with conservatives as Brain rightfully pointed out.

Do you know how John McCain got to the top of the Republican ballot last cycle? He was trailing in the polls and in the other states' primaries up until the Florida primary. Hillary and Obama mysteriously weren't both on the primary ballot in Florida due to a "problem" that was manufactured by the Democrat Party. The Democrat voters then had only one choice to vote for in their primary so their votes weren't necessary. So a large number of Democrat Party voters switched their affiliation to Republican (a record number of persons switched to Republican affiliation just before the primary) for the election so they could pick the easiest Republican to beat. After winning the Florida primary in a surprise landslide, McCain was suddenly the front runner for the Republicans and remained there.

Shenanigans? Not in politics.

Last edited by sixshooter; 12-26-2011 at 10:56 PM.
sixshooter is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 11:41 PM
  #15  
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,611
Total Cats: 25
Default

See provided sources, Sixshooter. Even in the worst case situation, Perot took as many votes from Clinton as from Bush. In virtually every other case, Perot took more votes from Clinton than Bush as per polls.
blaen99 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
hustler
Current Events, News, Politics
5
06-27-2011 05:27 PM
Braineack
Current Events, News, Politics
25
11-28-2010 10:24 AM
JasonC SBB
Current Events, News, Politics
12
08-18-2010 09:27 PM
Braineack
Insert BS here
19
11-17-2008 05:02 PM
JasonC SBB
Insert BS here
16
10-11-2008 01:41 PM



Quick Reply: Obama vs Civil Liberies - backlash



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 AM.