99 Sport eBay turbo build - Page 7 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-13-2016, 05:30 PM   #121
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 315
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
to be honest, its not a big deal with EBC, since it's controlled by the ecu unlike an mbc
you can reference it off the compressor and still be fine
i dont have a fitting on the compressor outlet, so i need to drill and tap a 1/8 npt fitting any way, so might as well do it after the intercooler.

do i need to seal the threads on said npt fitting on the charge pipe after i screw on the fitting? if so what product is recommended?

I tapped a 3/8" npt hole for the GM IAT sensor, and screwed it into the pipe right after the intercooler, and i put permatex thread sealer, but this stuff is like paste and doesnt harden after a few days, i touched it and its still a paste, so no idea how its supposed to seal the threads.

borka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2016, 08:46 PM   #122
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,690
Total Cats: 115
Default

I don't think you should be threading NPT holes in thin sheet metal, you really need to weld on bungs. With the proper thread engagement you don't need any sealer on NPT fittings, but teflon won't hurt.
deezums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2016, 10:19 PM   #123
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 315
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I don't think you should be threading NPT holes in thin sheet metal, you really need to weld on bungs. With the proper thread engagement you don't need any sealer on NPT fittings, but teflon won't hurt.
can i braze on the bungs or the IAT senor after i thread it into the pipe? or thread the IAT sensor and npt barb and then jbweld all around it?
borka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2016, 10:22 PM   #124
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 129
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I don't think you should be threading NPT holes in thin sheet metal, you really need to weld on bungs. With the proper thread engagement you don't need any sealer on NPT fittings, but teflon won't hurt.
What does the hive mind think about this sort of nonsense: http://www.siliconeintakes.com/holse...er/-p-500.html
slowcarfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 03:28 AM   #125
Junior Member
 
farpolemiddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Lents, Oregon
Posts: 419
Total Cats: 30
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowcarfast View Post
What does the hive mind think about this sort of nonsense: Silicone Port System

Were you thinking to put this on the cold side piping just as it left the intercooler? Just looking at it there could be a sensor depth issue since this would have to go from 1/2" to 3/8". It would be cool if they made it in 3/8" without the adaptor.
farpolemiddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 03:46 AM   #126
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,690
Total Cats: 115
Default

I think best bet for AIT is threaded straight into the intercooler end tank. If it's a cheap cast unit, which it probably is with all this talk, there's plenty of meat there to tap.

If I were trying to be efficient and cheap I would drill and tap 1/8npt right into the turbo compressor outlet. I used steel intercooler pipes and just welded a nut to the cold side, drilled and tapped to 1/8 npt. Only reason I went through the trouble is I wanted to switch the EBC valve off entirely for low power without dealing with pressure drop. You should be able to braze a nut to the pipe, would work fine if you did.

I'm not fond of the silicone thing, so many more leak points and they mention JB weld in the directions.
deezums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 06:25 AM   #127
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 129
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I think best bet for AIT is threaded straight into the intercooler end tank. If it's a cheap cast unit, which it probably is with all this talk, there's plenty of meat there to tap.

If I were trying to be efficient and cheap I would drill and tap 1/8npt right into the turbo compressor outlet. I used steel intercooler pipes and just welded a nut to the cold side, drilled and tapped to 1/8 npt. Only reason I went through the trouble is I wanted to switch the EBC valve off entirely for low power without dealing with pressure drop. You should be able to braze a nut to the pipe, would work fine if you did.

I'm not fond of the silicone thing, so many more leak points and they mention JB weld in the directions.
Thanks! I just have to convince my wife that I need a welder (yes, I realize brazing is the lower cost alternative). The other sketchy thing with the silicone piece (which they mention) is the risk of it failing and sending metal bits through your engine. I do not like that one bit.
slowcarfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 10:18 AM   #128
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 315
Total Cats: 19
Default

Ok. This is going to sound silly, but bear with my noobness.

Car is running great, pulls strong.

I want to take it to the dyno, and have it tuned by myself....
But being the noob that i am, i never been to a dyno, nor tuned at a dyno.

Without DET cans, i will leave my timing map alone, and tune only fuel. correct?

So when at the dyno, i just have to do a bunch autotune runs, with different throttle inputs and basically hit all the cells on the map yes?

here are my maps, let me know if you see anything odd. (VE map over 180kpa is stupid rich, as i have not hit those cells yet to autotune).
99 miata stock engine. i will be tuning 10-12 psi.

Attached Thumbnails
99 Sport eBay turbo build-80-i_mdshjtb_0de68cd904a77af0438eb2d97fd51ec0b1db410a.jpg  
borka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 10:42 AM   #129
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Staunton, Va
Posts: 1,862
Total Cats: 128
Default

Wouldn't you want to auto tune yourself, to minimize the dyno time, as well as familiarizing yourself with the software?
ryansmoneypit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 10:54 AM   #130
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 315
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit View Post
Wouldn't you want to auto tune yourself, to minimize the dyno time, as well as familiarizing yourself with the software?
ive been autotuning it myself for 3 month's already. but i am having trouble finding enough road or time on the road to hit every cell reliably with constant throttle from 1k to 7k rpm.
If im on small road, i can do a 1-7k 4th gear pull, but then the speed limit is low and i am way way over it.
Then if i go on a hwy with 70 limit, i cant slow down to 1.5k rpm to do a full rpm sweep pull.

so a dyno is a rolling road, where i can take my time and hit all the cells correct?

basically i dont want to get run over or arrested.
borka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 10:56 AM   #131
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Posts: 718
Total Cats: 61
Default

Autotuning on a dyno sounds silly. Just drive it! If you really want to do tuning on a dyno, then get/make some det cans and tune spark. But with autotune, tuning fuel on a dyno is just a waste of money and time. If you want to dyno for numbers, then autotune fuel on the street, and do a pull on the dyno while datalogging to verify AFR.

Also, you can lean out AFR in the 105-150 kpa range. You could make your 95 kpa row around 13.0, keep your 175 row at 11.6, and interpolate in between.
acedeuce802 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 11:00 AM   #132
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Posts: 718
Total Cats: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borka View Post
ive been autotuning it myself for 3 month's already. but i am having trouble finding enough road or time on the road to hit every cell reliably with constant throttle from 1k to 7k rpm.
If im on small road, i can do a 1-7k 4th gear pull, but then the speed limit is low and i am way way over it.
Then if i go on a hwy with 70 limit, i cant slow down to 1.5k rpm to do a full rpm sweep pull.

so a dyno is a rolling road, where i can take my time and hit all the cells correct?

basically i dont want to get run over or arrested.
If my base map is driveable, I can hit enough cells to get a good tune in 10 minutes or so. It's pretty easy to find a highway on ramp with a right turn leading up to it. Stick it in 3rd gear at 2500 rpm or so and get up to redline. That should be around 75 mph. Then in 3rd gear, play around with the throttle to hit the mid range of map, then stick it in 4th and continue.

Ideally, the fuel map will be perfectly linear, in both rpm and map. This isn't exactly true in reality, but it's close. So after you autotune, pull up your VE map and a 3D tuning map of the VE map and start interpolating. Never interpolate more than 4x4 or 5x5 or so cells at a time, because there may actually be humps in the map. But, notice trends in how VE changes with rpm and map, and apply that to the cells you didn't quite hit. This has gotten me close enough for a near spot on VE map. Sometimes I will autotune, smooth and interpolate, then autotune again, then smooth again.
acedeuce802 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 11:15 AM   #133
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 315
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acedeuce802 View Post
If my base map is driveable, I can hit enough cells to get a good tune in 10 minutes or so. It's pretty easy to find a highway on ramp with a right turn leading up to it. Stick it in 3rd gear at 2500 rpm or so and get up to redline. That should be around 75 mph. Then in 3rd gear, play around with the throttle to hit the mid range of map, then stick it in 4th and continue.

Ideally, the fuel map will be perfectly linear, in both rpm and map. This isn't exactly true in reality, but it's close. So after you autotune, pull up your VE map and a 3D tuning map of the VE map and start interpolating. Never interpolate more than 4x4 or 5x5 or so cells at a time, because there may actually be humps in the map. But, notice trends in how VE changes with rpm and map, and apply that to the cells you didn't quite hit. This has gotten me close enough for a near spot on VE map. Sometimes I will autotune, smooth and interpolate, then autotune again, then smooth again.
Great suggestions about leaning out 95-150kpa. i will make 95kpa 13 and interpolate 150-95. Thanks!

ok. more road tuning, and then ill do 3 dyno pulls just to get numbers. its $75 here for 3 pulls.

im curious to see what it makes at 10 and 12psi.
borka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 12:26 PM   #134
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 315
Total Cats: 19
Default

I just booked 3 dyno pulls for tomorrow

will post results tomorrow evening.
borka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 10:51 PM   #135
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 315
Total Cats: 19
Default

so, went to the dyno. a little disappointing. i was hoping to make 220-230whp.

Did 3 pulls:
Waste-gate only: 6-7 psi. 174HP 166TQ - Not bad for wg only.
EBC 40% Duty cycle: 10-11psi 206HP 201TQ - I was hoping for 220hp or so.
EBC 46% Duty cycle: 11-12psi 211HP 203TQ - I was hoping for 230hp :(

Logs attached. you can see my maps and timing 5 posts up.

Im just using the base timing map that came from Rev with my MS2E, you think i need more timing to make moar power?

Let me know what you think, and if i should have made moar powwaaa.

Attached Thumbnails
99 Sport eBay turbo build-80-i_4npjcrk_x3_2f449d67e5cea2320da803d61d5d029a047a77d8.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: msl wg only dyno.msl (293.3 KB, 11 views)
File Type: msl dyno 2 30wg.msl (408.6 KB, 10 views)
File Type: msl dyno 3 40 wg.msl (434.1 KB, 5 views)
File Type: msl 46 wg.msl (432.0 KB, 11 views)
borka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2016, 01:31 AM   #136
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 615
Total Cats: 22
Default

Lots of good info in this page. Much like. I have no idea what you are doing but it looks cool.
MiataMan00 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 11:25 AM   #137
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 315
Total Cats: 19
Default

Went to the drag strip last night. fun times. met another turbo miata owner and we were racing neck to neck the whole night.
He did beat me at the end though 0.1 sec faster.
Im a noob at drag racing, and could not get a good off the line start.

Ran into a problem with the car that i had once before, after about 8 runs, the car started idling high, for no reason. it would idle at 2.5k rpm, and if i gas it it would stay at 3k rpm idling.
PWM came down to my normal 5.1%, but idle was still 2.5k rpm.

i am attaching a log of the high idle. plz help.

Attached Thumbnails
99 Sport eBay turbo build-80-i_6ptrjmf_xl_056c28706ba0f99c65b64c00d45d243dfca7481f.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: msl high idle 3.msl (378.5 KB, 6 views)
File Type: msl high idle.msl (761.8 KB, 8 views)
borka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 01:51 PM   #138
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,690
Total Cats: 115
Default

Idle valve % way too low is my guess, can't go that low. Eventually it will round right back around and start increasing idle RPMs with lower percentages.

Go into test mode and get a feeling for how what idle percentages do what.
deezums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 01:55 PM   #139
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 33,829
Total Cats: 2,122
Default

yeah you're exceeding the threshold and the car just defaults to high idle valve duty
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 01:55 PM   #140
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 315
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
Idle valve % way too low is my guess, can't go that low. Eventually it will round right back around and start increasing idle RPMs with lower percentages.

Go into test mode and get a feeling for how what idle percentages do what.
hmm... so the idle valve can go round and round in a circle? not just turn one way tight and other way loose?

when i was playing with the percentages, 5.1% is what it took to get my idle to idle at 950rpm, anything higher and idle was higher...
borka is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Miata Garage Sale (Engine parts, Suspension, Interior, Exterior) vehicular Miata parts for sale/trade 24 06-08-2016 05:53 PM
Thread for naturally aspirated manifold design asmasm Engine Performance 93 01-19-2016 08:11 PM
Smoking from exhaust after Turbo Install ya boy willz General Miata Chat 4 01-02-2016 11:35 AM
Posting to classifieds difficulty burningman General Miata Chat 3 12-31-2015 09:55 PM
MIATA 1991 TURBO yoruguaparagua DIY Turbo Discussion 10 12-25-2015 05:37 PM


Tags
miata ebay turbo build

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:24 AM.