EGT: Placement, probe source, limits, and even necessary?
11-08-2006, 10:18 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110º" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
EGT: Placement, probe source, limits, and even necessary?
My LMA logs EGT and I already have the wires so I was thinking about logging it. Few questions.
I see that #4 runner is the hottest, but near the collector would work also (preferable?).
Max temps? I've heard over 1600F is bad, but anyone have a more accurate/realistic number?
I found this quickly searching. Seems cheap. Anyone here sell probes? Any Type K sensor. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo.../micro5egt.php
Lastly, is monitoring EGTs even necessary? Seems like with accurate AFR readings, EGT is kinda, uh "outdated" I guess. (??) Seems to be more of a "safety" thing..
I see that #4 runner is the hottest, but near the collector would work also (preferable?).
Max temps? I've heard over 1600F is bad, but anyone have a more accurate/realistic number?
I found this quickly searching. Seems cheap. Anyone here sell probes? Any Type K sensor. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo.../micro5egt.php
Lastly, is monitoring EGTs even necessary? Seems like with accurate AFR readings, EGT is kinda, uh "outdated" I guess. (??) Seems to be more of a "safety" thing..
Reply
0
0
11-09-2006, 08:57 AM
#2
IMO egts are nice to know for fine tuning w/o a dyno. One more piece of data to reference when going through logs or tuning.
For a single probe, preferrable location is right at the turbine inlet so you can see a cumulative temp. That should show your peak temp since that's the convergence point of all gas and the point of resistance to exhaust being forced into the turbine housing. You could also place bungs at each runner to check the individual tuning of each cyldiner. Then make four dyno/DL runs, moving the probe between each run.
As far as peak EGTs, there's numerous arguments to what is too high. Lots of guys see peaks right at 1600f measured at the turbine intake and don't have problems.
mnet EGT post 1
from this thread
and another one
That looks like the going rate to me for a K sensor.
IMO the EGT shows more detail about the combustion- vs. the AFR showing detail on the product of the combustion. Make sense? IOW - the AFR would never show a tune that was over fueled and/or under advanced IF "all" the fuel was being burnt- even though it was being burnt outside of the cylinder- in the manifold. Being able to determine that with an excessive EGT is having the ability to recover available power. For me, I uncovered an over advance that was being knock prevented by over fueling (under 100kpa). High EGTs where the tip off something was wrong. -rob
For a single probe, preferrable location is right at the turbine inlet so you can see a cumulative temp. That should show your peak temp since that's the convergence point of all gas and the point of resistance to exhaust being forced into the turbine housing. You could also place bungs at each runner to check the individual tuning of each cyldiner. Then make four dyno/DL runs, moving the probe between each run.
As far as peak EGTs, there's numerous arguments to what is too high. Lots of guys see peaks right at 1600f measured at the turbine intake and don't have problems.
mnet EGT post 1
from this thread
and another one
That looks like the going rate to me for a K sensor.
IMO the EGT shows more detail about the combustion- vs. the AFR showing detail on the product of the combustion. Make sense? IOW - the AFR would never show a tune that was over fueled and/or under advanced IF "all" the fuel was being burnt- even though it was being burnt outside of the cylinder- in the manifold. Being able to determine that with an excessive EGT is having the ability to recover available power. For me, I uncovered an over advance that was being knock prevented by over fueling (under 100kpa). High EGTs where the tip off something was wrong. -rob
Reply
0
0
11-09-2006, 11:31 AM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110º" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
Never hurts!
M2, do you think all 4 would be worth it? I don't have the coolant reroute. It would be interesting to see the difference once temps start climbing. Although I must admit I'd like to just insert one probe, possibly welded in, so the maintence is zero. One less thing to think about leaking. The plugs ever loosen/leak/?
That's the word on the streetz too.
That's new info for me, word! Gonna do it. Thanks rob.
For a single probe, preferrable location is right at the turbine inlet so you can see a cumulative temp. That should show your peak temp since that's the convergence point of all gas and the point of resistance to exhaust being forced into the turbine housing. You could also place bungs at each runner to check the individual tuning of each cyldiner. Then make four dyno/DL runs, moving the probe between each run.
IMO the EGT shows more detail about the combustion- vs. the AFR showing detail on the product of the combustion. Make sense? IOW - the AFR would never show a tune that was over fueled and/or under advanced IF "all" the fuel was being burnt- even though it was being burnt outside of the cylinder- in the manifold. Being able to determine that with an excessive EGT is having the ability to recover available power. For me, I uncovered an over advance that was being knock prevented by over fueling (under 100kpa). High EGTs where the tip off something was wrong. -rob
Reply
0
0
11-09-2006, 11:56 AM
#5
Don't weld it in. It will fail eventually and need to be replaced. I have mine in the same position as IntrnlStorm on one of the referenced threads.
The one that came with my Zeitronix was open and used to catch little pieces of carbon and shoot way high. Then the gases finally eroded it. I bought a GReddy replacement and it has been fine, albeit slightly slower due to the tip being enclosed(milliseconds)
The one that came with my Zeitronix was open and used to catch little pieces of carbon and shoot way high. Then the gases finally eroded it. I bought a GReddy replacement and it has been fine, albeit slightly slower due to the tip being enclosed(milliseconds)
Reply
0
0
11-09-2006, 12:02 PM
#6
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sammamish, Washington
Posts: 1,396
Total Cats: 0
I don't sell probes but will have an Autometer EGT gauge and probe setup for sale very soon for around $75. Also, I tapped about 2 inches away from the head on cylinder 4 when I had my Miata.
Reply
0
0
11-09-2006, 01:26 PM
#7
I only have one location at the collector, about 1" from the turbine housing flange. There's too many other things to do before worrying about individual cylinder data. I have a coolant reroute by default anyway. No reports of a hot number 4 from the fwd crowd on the FE3 either.
I'm using the autometer egt/probe and it's worked great. The only hiccup was a shared ground that was causing the egt gauge to flake out. Provided a "solo" ground and it has been perfect ever since. I'm using the clamp to hold it in on an odd shaped collector and it works fine.
I'm using the autometer egt/probe and it's worked great. The only hiccup was a shared ground that was causing the egt gauge to flake out. Provided a "solo" ground and it has been perfect ever since. I'm using the clamp to hold it in on an odd shaped collector and it works fine.
Reply
0
0
11-09-2006, 02:42 PM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110º" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
Thanks for the links, that's great info!Just need the probe.
Last edited by UofACATS; 11-09-2006 at 02:54 PM.
Reply
0
0
11-09-2006, 03:09 PM
#10
Last I checked though, most EGTs are setup best with weld-in bungs. Then you can simply unscrew the egt probe.
Thats how my autometer one is setup on my civic.
From everything I've looked into and been told... the ideal setup is one per cylinder... 2 inches from the head. If not... pick the hotest. On the civic that is cyl3, so I have it 2 inches from the head there... then i can monitor the hottest conditions that will come out of the motor.
I'll be running one on my miotta project... just unsure of where... it'll have dual feed rail and coolant reroute... so possibly just in the collector for an overall look.
Thats how my autometer one is setup on my civic.
From everything I've looked into and been told... the ideal setup is one per cylinder... 2 inches from the head. If not... pick the hotest. On the civic that is cyl3, so I have it 2 inches from the head there... then i can monitor the hottest conditions that will come out of the motor.
I'll be running one on my miotta project... just unsure of where... it'll have dual feed rail and coolant reroute... so possibly just in the collector for an overall look.
Reply
0
0
11-09-2006, 04:37 PM
#12
I was going to weld a bung, but several recommended the clamp and ceramic gasket and it's worked. Saved me the work of removing the header. I think the location depends on what you're after. Agreed a probe per cylinder is ideal. I think knowing the TIT gives a "big picture" of overall engine tune. - rob
Reply
0
0
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Jike Spingleton
Cars for sale/trade
3
09-20-2016 04:33 PM
Rudes333
Miata parts for sale/trade
17
11-05-2015 01:16 PM
