day n night
06-20-2009, 12:02 AM
#1
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day n night
day and night, ive been all over miataturbo.
browsing, lurking, stalking, obsessing, Looking for the perfect street set-up with the right turbo for my needs and there are just so many set ups you all have it just down right confuses the heck out of me.
Reading this and that. There is so much I have learned here, its crazy.
Im a "do-it-yourself'er" so building my own set-up is what I chose to do.
Well its that time for me when every DIY'er wants a new set-up.
These are my plans and I want alot of you to share your thoughts.
Im looking for the perfect turbo for a 1.6 w/ completely stock internals.
This will be for a 1.6, pure stock internals.
Im currently rebuilding a 1.6 to factory specs, new pistons, new EVERYTHING. cept crank and rods. Head WILL be ported and polished, valves polished and cleaned, All the works.
So here we go guys:
At most, 15psi but no less then 10psi,
External or internal WG, doesnt matter to me.
My hearts set on a BEGi cast manifold for there duribility. These as you know come with the option for an external WG.
As for the downpipe it will either be a BEGi or i,ll fab up my own.
All this will be used for a street set-up so quick response is what I desire most as opposed to power.
As for everything else, its all here from my current set up. Mspnp, fmic,piping,lines, all there.
550cc injectors will be going on this new set-up also if needed if my current 305cc's cant handle it.
Im looking for at LEAST 190rwhp and at most 250rwhp since this is what ive read that the stock internals can handle.
Please and thank you all.
browsing, lurking, stalking, obsessing, Looking for the perfect street set-up with the right turbo for my needs and there are just so many set ups you all have it just down right confuses the heck out of me.
Reading this and that. There is so much I have learned here, its crazy.
Im a "do-it-yourself'er" so building my own set-up is what I chose to do.
Well its that time for me when every DIY'er wants a new set-up.
These are my plans and I want alot of you to share your thoughts.
Im looking for the perfect turbo for a 1.6 w/ completely stock internals.
This will be for a 1.6, pure stock internals.
Im currently rebuilding a 1.6 to factory specs, new pistons, new EVERYTHING. cept crank and rods. Head WILL be ported and polished, valves polished and cleaned, All the works.
So here we go guys:
At most, 15psi but no less then 10psi,
External or internal WG, doesnt matter to me.
My hearts set on a BEGi cast manifold for there duribility. These as you know come with the option for an external WG.
As for the downpipe it will either be a BEGi or i,ll fab up my own.
All this will be used for a street set-up so quick response is what I desire most as opposed to power.
As for everything else, its all here from my current set up. Mspnp, fmic,piping,lines, all there.
550cc injectors will be going on this new set-up also if needed if my current 305cc's cant handle it.
Im looking for at LEAST 190rwhp and at most 250rwhp since this is what ive read that the stock internals can handle.
Please and thank you all.
Last edited by railz; 06-20-2009 at 12:15 AM.
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06-20-2009, 12:14 AM
#5
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Many others, but are you looking to do some work to make it fit, and sourcing used parts, or do you want bolt up and go. And how much are you looking to spend. If it were me and money was not an issue I would base my build off of the BEGi S2 with the 2560, or just get the S2 kit only because its proven, and its easy. Since I'm broke, it will probably be one of the Shanghai kits and piece together some of the other stuff I need.
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06-20-2009, 12:29 AM
#8
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My two cents.
Get the 2560. Mine was plenty responsive. It is very streetable and will make plenty of power. The 2554 is pushing it for 15 psi.
You will be able to make use of the 550cc injectors so I would put them in especially since you have the MS already.
Internal waste gate will be fine. I did not have boost creep problems with the BEGI cast and the 2560, even with a non-SGDP. Use a MBC (instead of open-loop EBC) to reduce air temperature sensitivity since you are running mostly stock internals.
Get the 2560. Mine was plenty responsive. It is very streetable and will make plenty of power. The 2554 is pushing it for 15 psi.
You will be able to make use of the 550cc injectors so I would put them in especially since you have the MS already.
Internal waste gate will be fine. I did not have boost creep problems with the BEGI cast and the 2560, even with a non-SGDP. Use a MBC (instead of open-loop EBC) to reduce air temperature sensitivity since you are running mostly stock internals.
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06-20-2009, 12:36 AM
#9
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My two cents.
Get the 2560. Mine was plenty responsive. It is very streetable and will make plenty of power. The 2554 is pushing it for 15 psi.
You will be able to make use of the 550cc injectors so I would put them in especially since you have the MS already.
Internal waste gate will be fine. I did not have boost creep problems with the BEGI cast and the 2560, even with a non-SGDP. Use a MBC (instead of open-loop EBC) to reduce air temperature sensitivity since you are running mostly stock internals.
Get the 2560. Mine was plenty responsive. It is very streetable and will make plenty of power. The 2554 is pushing it for 15 psi.
You will be able to make use of the 550cc injectors so I would put them in especially since you have the MS already.
Internal waste gate will be fine. I did not have boost creep problems with the BEGI cast and the 2560, even with a non-SGDP. Use a MBC (instead of open-loop EBC) to reduce air temperature sensitivity since you are running mostly stock internals.
, you say use a manual boost controller as opposed to a electronic one.
oddly I have one, a MBC that is and its a small brass flying miata mbc. never used it since I just stuck to the stock actuator's boost limits on my 14b (max 10psi)
would this be a good mbc to use? considering it is just a ball and spring type mbc.
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06-20-2009, 12:44 AM
#10
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I have a hybrid EBC/MBC setup using the TurboXS MBC. I do know from my previous MS EBC open-loop only setup that there will be 2-3 psi of air temperature related boost change, say with a 20-30F air temperature drop. Reportedly the MBC is less sensitive to air temperature changes, but still gives you better spool than running on the wastegate only.
You do not need the MBC just to increase boost. It can also help build boost earlier even if you set it at the wastegate pressure.
You do not need the MBC just to increase boost. It can also help build boost earlier even if you set it at the wastegate pressure.
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06-20-2009, 03:39 AM
#12
Your priorities are not in order here. Why in the hell would you spend money, buy parts, put the sweat and effort into doing all that work just to see what it gives you in the end?
SET A GOAL! SET A BUDGET! MAKE DECISIONS! DO HOMEWORK!
THEN BUY PARTS!
10psi of the -54 might get you 160whp, while 15psi on the -60 might get you 260whp. You can't plan for **** with these kinds of variables.
Nobody here should tell you that it's smart to rebuild completely stock internals with the intention of boost... especially if you're even considering a GT2560 or larger... and it costs the same amount of money to rebuild a 1.8 as a 1.6... why not go with the swap while you're in there and gain a bunch of headroom for the price of the FM kit. You can probably find a blown 1.8 somewhere that somebody will give you just to be rid of it. And we all know the weak link in the stock rotating assembly is rods... for $300 you can have a set of 949's that a GT2560 cannot hurt.
If you're going to spend the money (it doesn't sound like you're all that hurting budget-wise) you might as well do it right.
So, set a goal. Let's say 250whp just for the academic part. The GT2554r will not get you there... scrap that. A GT2560 on a 1.6 (even with a little headwork) is going to be pushing more than 15psi and is into the upper end of it's efficiency... and although it's going to spool decently, it's not the -54.
Now... say somebody gives you a 1.8 for free (very likely). The FM swap kit is $250, and a set of 949 rods is $300. You do an exhintake swap and a set of adjustable cam-gears ($150) while you're in there... cams are plentiful in junkyards too. Now when you throw on the GT2560, you get the same spool as a -54 on the 1.6, plus you're gonna be in the 250whp range at around 12-13psi with a little cam-tuning. You can do even better (or the same on less boost) by going with the S4 stuff. I know you said you were looking at cast stuff, but BEGi claims they've never had an S4 mani fail, and DD'ing it on the street means you probably won't be the first. S4 price over cast stuff and the DP is $200.
So, we're talking about $900 to upgrade from a stock 1.6 running a -54 and making 220whp max, to a bulletproof 1.8 on a -60 with double the bling at upwards of 300whp.
Or you can skip all that rebuild **** and buy a used low mileage '99-'00 motor, still do the exhintake+camgears, and shoot for 300whp on the -60 like I'm going to do. Since the 1.6 wiring harness won't do VICs for you, gut the IM for us (still looking for more datapoints on that one) and report back. You're welcome.
SET A GOAL! SET A BUDGET! MAKE DECISIONS! DO HOMEWORK!
THEN BUY PARTS!
10psi of the -54 might get you 160whp, while 15psi on the -60 might get you 260whp. You can't plan for **** with these kinds of variables.
Nobody here should tell you that it's smart to rebuild completely stock internals with the intention of boost... especially if you're even considering a GT2560 or larger... and it costs the same amount of money to rebuild a 1.8 as a 1.6... why not go with the swap while you're in there and gain a bunch of headroom for the price of the FM kit. You can probably find a blown 1.8 somewhere that somebody will give you just to be rid of it. And we all know the weak link in the stock rotating assembly is rods... for $300 you can have a set of 949's that a GT2560 cannot hurt.
If you're going to spend the money (it doesn't sound like you're all that hurting budget-wise) you might as well do it right.
So, set a goal. Let's say 250whp just for the academic part. The GT2554r will not get you there... scrap that. A GT2560 on a 1.6 (even with a little headwork) is going to be pushing more than 15psi and is into the upper end of it's efficiency... and although it's going to spool decently, it's not the -54.
Now... say somebody gives you a 1.8 for free (very likely). The FM swap kit is $250, and a set of 949 rods is $300. You do an exhintake swap and a set of adjustable cam-gears ($150) while you're in there... cams are plentiful in junkyards too. Now when you throw on the GT2560, you get the same spool as a -54 on the 1.6, plus you're gonna be in the 250whp range at around 12-13psi with a little cam-tuning. You can do even better (or the same on less boost) by going with the S4 stuff. I know you said you were looking at cast stuff, but BEGi claims they've never had an S4 mani fail, and DD'ing it on the street means you probably won't be the first. S4 price over cast stuff and the DP is $200.
So, we're talking about $900 to upgrade from a stock 1.6 running a -54 and making 220whp max, to a bulletproof 1.8 on a -60 with double the bling at upwards of 300whp.
Or you can skip all that rebuild **** and buy a used low mileage '99-'00 motor, still do the exhintake+camgears, and shoot for 300whp on the -60 like I'm going to do. Since the 1.6 wiring harness won't do VICs for you, gut the IM for us (still looking for more datapoints on that one) and report back. You're welcome.
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06-20-2009, 10:55 AM
#15
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yes...plan exactly where you want to be when you're done, then start buying parts. Sure I had to wait 2-years to get my **** rolling, but I rarely had to buy **** twice.
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06-20-2009, 12:05 PM
#18
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It's crazy talk to me to open a motor up and spend all that time, effort and money to build it up and not put forged rods in it if you want to run any boost on the motor. Just crazy talk. The rods are the #1 most common failure point. It's not even about how much boost you put through it, guys have had oops moments and messed up a rod at "safe" boost levels, and for the minimal cost of forged rods, there's no reason to allow your freshly built motor to have that achilles heel, especially when the alternative is rods that will allow you to throw virtually anything at them...
-Ryan
-Ryan
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06-20-2009, 01:12 PM
#19
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Forged internals has not skipped my mind at all.
Its just a few months ago i purchsed an entire rebuild kit for 100 bucks. it was 100% complete and for a 1.6. Not only that but i have EVERYTHING for the 1.6 ready. i have new oil pump, water pump starter, alternator. i know thats not much but i have all my plans for now set for a 1.6.
Dont thing i dont appreciate all those awsome plans, very inspiring i must say. but it was just set me back sooo much further since i have everything ready for the 1.6.
for the 1.6 all i need right now is a manifold and turbo along with other small misc things, ya know?
A 1.8 will be in my car for sure in the future but not now because of what i already have in front of me. The motor is my car rright now is leaking oil, low compression and is just plain old.
and again samnavy thanks for passing the knowledge down. I really would love to follow your plans but right now a 1.6 is all i have infront of me so this is what i,ll use for now.
as for budget i have about 1k to spend on a manifold and turbo and other small misc things i need.
Its just a few months ago i purchsed an entire rebuild kit for 100 bucks. it was 100% complete and for a 1.6. Not only that but i have EVERYTHING for the 1.6 ready. i have new oil pump, water pump starter, alternator. i know thats not much but i have all my plans for now set for a 1.6.
Dont thing i dont appreciate all those awsome plans, very inspiring i must say. but it was just set me back sooo much further since i have everything ready for the 1.6.
for the 1.6 all i need right now is a manifold and turbo along with other small misc things, ya know?
A 1.8 will be in my car for sure in the future but not now because of what i already have in front of me. The motor is my car rright now is leaking oil, low compression and is just plain old.
and again samnavy thanks for passing the knowledge down. I really would love to follow your plans but right now a 1.6 is all i have infront of me so this is what i,ll use for now.
as for budget i have about 1k to spend on a manifold and turbo and other small misc things i need.
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