Old School S-AFC (5-Knob) on 1990 NA6
10-30-2013, 12:32 PM
#1
Old School S-AFC (5-****) on 1990 NA6
Hey Guys,
Quick Intro - if you don't care skip down
Been on the site a little bit over 5 years. Over the last 10 years I've owned/built multiple SE-R/NX2000/240sx/200sx (a few turbo), old school protege, saab 92-x, and currently a modified SF turbo forester. Got out of the car game and started playing with motorcycles and racing supermoto. Well, Picked up a Miata last year broken and have since fixed it up. Initially I planned to sell it, but somehow or another this thing turned into my other daily driver. (go fig). People think it's funny watching my big *** pop in and out of this thing like a clown car. I'm amazed that this little 1.6 combined with the peg legger out back is so damned fun. Anyway...
Fast forward...
Been driving the **** out of the car. Replaced more broken things... This thing won't die. It is awesome. Bought cheap wheels, replaced suspension with some NB top hats and coils, fixing a new replacement top I got, replaced blown radiator with a mishimoto, have a set of bumpers to replace my dimpled one... This thing has revived my mod bug. After a year or so I decided... EFF it. I'm boosting it. I found a few parts from my previous builds along the years to keep things under budget (curse that word)... so in the process of sourcing all of my parts I found a gt2560r from an s14, I have an externally gated t2 manifold on the way (no it's not ebay), and a freekin 5-**** Super-AFC from god knows when (don't even remember buying it!)...
Cliff NOTES *Seriously, STFU and ask the question*
Has anyone ever installed the old school SAFC (the old school with no screen, 5-**** box) on an NA6? I already know it has not high/low boost/throttle position inputs, or timing advantages... But right now it's what I have to subtract/add a little fuel for the time being.
Plans are to run the setup externally gated on minimal boost pressure (4lbs if possible) until after winter.
Reason I ask is because there isn't much info anywhere on this old system, and the original instruction don't include the B6 years, however I've read information that people have used them in the past. I want to know which Vehicle Setting Table I can use.
Please refrain from the "you are going to blow it up", "eat **** ricer", "... you are dumb... don't buy that crap... buy MSPNP/Emanage/MS3/Eprom/etc.", "ERRMEHGOD, Search blah blah blah, I found this in two seconds... -Links-" comments. Yes, I'm an old ricer I know. Done the car forum thing for 11 years, moderated a couple... I get it.
Now that that's clear... I appreciate any insight I can get on this.
This is the module I'm talking about
This is my heap/POS. Yes I am an old ricer
Quick Intro - if you don't care skip down
Been on the site a little bit over 5 years. Over the last 10 years I've owned/built multiple SE-R/NX2000/240sx/200sx (a few turbo), old school protege, saab 92-x, and currently a modified SF turbo forester. Got out of the car game and started playing with motorcycles and racing supermoto. Well, Picked up a Miata last year broken and have since fixed it up. Initially I planned to sell it, but somehow or another this thing turned into my other daily driver. (go fig). People think it's funny watching my big *** pop in and out of this thing like a clown car. I'm amazed that this little 1.6 combined with the peg legger out back is so damned fun. Anyway...
Fast forward...
Been driving the **** out of the car. Replaced more broken things... This thing won't die. It is awesome. Bought cheap wheels, replaced suspension with some NB top hats and coils, fixing a new replacement top I got, replaced blown radiator with a mishimoto, have a set of bumpers to replace my dimpled one... This thing has revived my mod bug. After a year or so I decided... EFF it. I'm boosting it. I found a few parts from my previous builds along the years to keep things under budget (curse that word)... so in the process of sourcing all of my parts I found a gt2560r from an s14, I have an externally gated t2 manifold on the way (no it's not ebay), and a freekin 5-**** Super-AFC from god knows when (don't even remember buying it!)...
Cliff NOTES *Seriously, STFU and ask the question*
Has anyone ever installed the old school SAFC (the old school with no screen, 5-**** box) on an NA6? I already know it has not high/low boost/throttle position inputs, or timing advantages... But right now it's what I have to subtract/add a little fuel for the time being.
Plans are to run the setup externally gated on minimal boost pressure (4lbs if possible) until after winter.
Reason I ask is because there isn't much info anywhere on this old system, and the original instruction don't include the B6 years, however I've read information that people have used them in the past. I want to know which Vehicle Setting Table I can use.
Please refrain from the "you are going to blow it up", "eat **** ricer", "... you are dumb... don't buy that crap... buy MSPNP/Emanage/MS3/Eprom/etc.", "ERRMEHGOD, Search blah blah blah, I found this in two seconds... -Links-" comments. Yes, I'm an old ricer I know. Done the car forum thing for 11 years, moderated a couple... I get it.
Now that that's clear... I appreciate any insight I can get on this.
This is the module I'm talking about
This is my heap/POS. Yes I am an old ricer
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10-30-2013, 12:36 PM
#2
Solid post, but don't expect that to work anywhere close to correctly on a VAF car like what you have. Voltage ranges are entirely wrong to work with that sort of thing.
I'll give you $20 for it just to add to my collection of terrible old JDM y0 t00ning boxes, though.
I'll give you $20 for it just to add to my collection of terrible old JDM y0 t00ning boxes, though.
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10-30-2013, 12:42 PM
#5
Solid post, but don't expect that to work anywhere close to correctly on a VAF car like what you have. Voltage ranges are entirely wrong to work with that sort of thing.
I'll give you $20 for it just to add to my collection of terrible old JDM y0 t00ning boxes, though.
I'll give you $20 for it just to add to my collection of terrible old JDM y0 t00ning boxes, though.
Fk. I'm going to frame this bitch. It belongs in a museum. We'll there goes my 'free' "management" dreams... Man, all those OP edits for nothing lol.I hate you.
No I didn't. Don't spare anything... **** in my cereal. It is sounding like a MegaSquirt type deal is my best option.
Last edited by Meeners; 10-30-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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10-30-2013, 12:46 PM
#6
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Also, nobody here would ever tell you to use emanage, that **** is garbage too. EEPROM is not a possibility, although I wish it was. Nobody has hacked this ECU like they have with the DSMs and Hondas.
You have on option, and you already know what it is.
You have on option, and you already know what it is.
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10-30-2013, 12:50 PM
#7
I hesitate to post this here, but do you know what WOULD work?
HKS made both a VPC and a PFC FCON for this car. There's a dude on Clubroadster that has two of the VPCs for sale, i believe WITH the PNP harness.
You could get that, stack a GCC or POTENTIALLY wire the S-AFC into the HKS unit as you would with a GCC, and it should work.
With the VPC, you'd remove the VAF as well.
Would i bother with any of this on a Miata? **** no. Is it out there? Yes.
Do i use this **** to make obscene amounts of power on my MX6? Yep.
EMPLOYING THE STATE-OF-THE-ART TECHNOLOGY
Don't be a chump, get a Megasquirt. And seriously... gimme that S-AFC.
HKS made both a VPC and a PFC FCON for this car. There's a dude on Clubroadster that has two of the VPCs for sale, i believe WITH the PNP harness.
You could get that, stack a GCC or POTENTIALLY wire the S-AFC into the HKS unit as you would with a GCC, and it should work.
With the VPC, you'd remove the VAF as well.
Would i bother with any of this on a Miata? **** no. Is it out there? Yes.
Do i use this **** to make obscene amounts of power on my MX6? Yep.
EMPLOYING THE STATE-OF-THE-ART TECHNOLOGY
Don't be a chump, get a Megasquirt. And seriously... gimme that S-AFC.
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10-30-2013, 01:00 PM
#8
I hesitate to post this here, but do you know what WOULD work?
HKS made both a VPC and a PFC FCON for this car. There's a dude on Clubroadster that has two of the VPCs for sale, i believe WITH the PNP harness.
You could get that, stack a GCC or POTENTIALLY wire the S-AFC into the HKS unit as you would with a GCC, and it should work.
With the VPC, you'd remove the VAF as well.
Would i bother with any of this on a Miata? **** no. Is it out there? Yes.
Do i use this **** to make obscene amounts of power on my MX6? Yep.
EMPLOYING THE STATE-OF-THE-ART TECHNOLOGY
Don't be a chump, get a Megasquirt. And seriously... gimme that S-AFC.
HKS made both a VPC and a PFC FCON for this car. There's a dude on Clubroadster that has two of the VPCs for sale, i believe WITH the PNP harness.
You could get that, stack a GCC or POTENTIALLY wire the S-AFC into the HKS unit as you would with a GCC, and it should work.
With the VPC, you'd remove the VAF as well.
Would i bother with any of this on a Miata? **** no. Is it out there? Yes.
Do i use this **** to make obscene amounts of power on my MX6? Yep.
EMPLOYING THE STATE-OF-THE-ART TECHNOLOGY
Don't be a chump, get a Megasquirt. And seriously... gimme that S-AFC.
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10-30-2013, 01:05 PM
#9
Get super fancy and control timing as well.
Or.... find the 4 digit code of the chip and what other cars shared the harness plugs and i can probably put something together for you. I have a few spares.
And a chip burner.
What will all this cost you? The same as a Megasquirt if not slightly more.
Or.... find the 4 digit code of the chip and what other cars shared the harness plugs and i can probably put something together for you. I have a few spares.
And a chip burner.
What will all this cost you? The same as a Megasquirt if not slightly more.
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10-30-2013, 01:24 PM
#13
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Ive been around it a little bit because tw34k used to chip and tune Hondas all the time. The reverse engineering done by the guys on pgmfi.org all those years ago is really astounding.
Im not sure what is worse, blow through carbs or a pile of piggybacks. Its really hard to say, they are both just so bad.
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10-30-2013, 01:30 PM
#14
All the HKS PFCs and VPCs use chips, and i run chipped ECUs on both the MX6s. Someone years ago had come close to fully "unlocking" the ECU on the MX6s a la Honda + Crome, but stopped at being able to use the Ostrich for something or other.
80% of the work was done.
Oh well.
80% of the work was done.
Oh well.
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10-30-2013, 02:25 PM
#15
Get super fancy and control timing as well.
Or.... find the 4 digit code of the chip and what other cars shared the harness plugs and i can probably put something together for you. I have a few spares.
And a chip burner.
What will all this cost you? The same as a Megasquirt if not slightly more.
Or.... find the 4 digit code of the chip and what other cars shared the harness plugs and i can probably put something together for you. I have a few spares.
And a chip burner.
What will all this cost you? The same as a Megasquirt if not slightly more.
The VPC and Timing Retard is simple and isn't tuning gold, but the car is 20 years old and just something to play around with... I don't even know why I'm arguing with myself about keeping things simple, other than principle. It's so simple it makes me druel.
In all seriousness, I know it's simple principle, but if I did go that route it would be as simple as running the VAF, adjusting manual timing, throw on a wideband (which i have). Installing the boost retarder, Iat, and is that a map sensor I see in the pic? and going? I know it's stupid but I love the homage with the old technology. It worked back then approach...
As far as theChip route, it would be as simple as running a motz burner and software to make chips I presume. As far as the tunes though, what would I use to create the programs? I was a fan of the chipped stuff on my old SE-R. Burn, adjust, burn, adjust... but my car was uber dependable... I had no worries like a mid 2000's rap star. I don't know why but I love old school stuff.
The reality is I'm sure the MS is better, and is probably better regarding expandability if I add things on. The old school stuff is probably discontinued as eff, but in all honesty, I've had somewhat fast cars and I'm over it. A good 180whp in a miata I'm sure would be enough. I like simple things, manual buttons, and switches. Woe is me.
*famous last words, lies to self, I've said this one before, in before first motor swap, in before blown diff*
Sounds like everyone follows the consensus that VAF/Flap type sucks? I guess i should be on the lookout for a simple megasquirt PNP and just chalk the VAF. I apologize for the ignorance, but I've never messed with VAF + Turbo before.
Guys, do you know where I can get a weber or edelbrock that fits the na6 manifold?
Last edited by Meeners; 10-30-2013 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Because I like to...
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10-30-2013, 02:30 PM
#16
Or a barely used (within the last 8 years) minty fresh (for it's age) 5-**** Super-AFC
In all seriousness, I know it's simple principle, but if I did go this route, it would be as simple as running a motz burner and software to make chips I presume. As far as the tunes though, what would I use to create the programs?
In all seriousness, I know it's simple principle, but if I did go this route, it would be as simple as running a motz burner and software to make chips I presume. As far as the tunes though, what would I use to create the programs?
Also: I can get that AFC for $30 or less pretty consistently, soo.... you're high if you think i'm going to trade a complete custom PFC setup for one.
I was a fan of the chipped stuff on my old SE-R. Burn, adjust, burn, adjust... but my car was uber dependable... I had no worries like a mid 2000's rap star. I don't know why but I love old school stuff.
The reality is I'm sure the MS is better, and is probably better regarding expandability if I add things on. But in all honesty, I've had somewhat fast cars and I'm over it. A good 180whp in a miata I'm sure would be enough
*famous last words, lies to self, I've said this one before, in before first motor swap, in before blown diff*
Sounds like everyone follows the consensus that VAF/Flap type sucks? I guess i should be on the lookout for a simple megasquirt PNP and just chalk the VAF. I apologize for the ignorance, but I've never messed with VAF + Turbo before.
*famous last words, lies to self, I've said this one before, in before first motor swap, in before blown diff*
Sounds like everyone follows the consensus that VAF/Flap type sucks? I guess i should be on the lookout for a simple megasquirt PNP and just chalk the VAF. I apologize for the ignorance, but I've never messed with VAF + Turbo before.
Oh... oh wait.
Guys, do you know where I can get a weber or edelbrock that fits the na6 manifold?
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10-30-2013, 03:01 PM
#19
I see (hks chip tuning)
Booo.
Flappers suck. They're not real accurate, have a wide range of what's "acceptable," which is both their achilles heel and their crutch. I like what they allow me to do when bastardized. I'd like even more to have the support there to completely ditch it, with a large amount of people to serve as support when i run into issues.
Oh... oh wait.
Oh... oh wait.
Built and Carbed Miata would sound nasty with ITB. I've never heard the term ITB and budget in the same thread. Heard it here first.
I like this guy. hehe.
<-- guy trying to re-re-reinvent the nostalgic wheel out
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