New to the world of turbo's.
09-28-2009, 12:15 PM
#1
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New to the world of turbo's.
HI guys im new to turbocharging so bear with me please. I plan on building my own turbo miata.
Turbo Manifold Miata 1.8L (N/A to Turbo)|Free Shipping
Downpipe + Outlet Miata MX-5 (NA TO TURBO)|Free Shipping
This is what i plan to use for the manifold and down pipe. I need a good used turbo but can not seem to find info on anything but the t25's that come in 2g dsms. What other turbo's can i run with this downpipe and what else would i need?
Keep in mind im trying to budget this to be under 500 or so. Price not including the exhaust or PCM. Just what i posted plus turbo and the little stuff like oil fittings and what not.
Turbo Manifold Miata 1.8L (N/A to Turbo)|Free Shipping
Downpipe + Outlet Miata MX-5 (NA TO TURBO)|Free Shipping
This is what i plan to use for the manifold and down pipe. I need a good used turbo but can not seem to find info on anything but the t25's that come in 2g dsms. What other turbo's can i run with this downpipe and what else would i need?
Keep in mind im trying to budget this to be under 500 or so. Price not including the exhaust or PCM. Just what i posted plus turbo and the little stuff like oil fittings and what not.
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09-28-2009, 12:17 PM
#2
Boost Czar
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Please invest in quality parts, those are two of the three most important parts and those will fail.
That's a rip off of the BEGi S4 manifold, and the FM downpipe. they are not compatible. The DP won't line up to a turbo mounted on the cheap copy-cat manifold. It's looks like a cheap imitation of the FM cast downpipe, which is not designed for that manifold, unless you want the exhaust to point back into the motor.
FM:
Rippoff:
That's a rip off of the BEGi S4 manifold, and the FM downpipe. they are not compatible. The DP won't line up to a turbo mounted on the cheap copy-cat manifold. It's looks like a cheap imitation of the FM cast downpipe, which is not designed for that manifold, unless you want the exhaust to point back into the motor.
FM:
Rippoff:
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09-28-2009, 12:29 PM
#4
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Ok thanks for the heads up. What could i use then that would meet a 500 or so dollar budget with a good used turbo? Or am i gona be stuck with paying closer to 1k for the good stuff. I don't have a problem buying quality parts. I do how ever have a problem with quality parts that are over priced. Advice?
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. What would you guys suggest for a quality DP and manifold?
09-28-2009, 01:13 PM
#14
Boost Pope
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The "hard parts" (turbo, manifold, downpipe) are difficult to do cheaply.
As a rule, the manifolds you find on ebay and from various low-end vendors which are made from welded stainless tubing, be they of the collector variety (as you posted) or the semi-log style (such as this one) are built from relatively thin material, and "designed" (if you can call it that) without much consideration for thermal expansion, bracing, etc. In other words, they are prone to cracking.
There is one exception to this rule, a cast-iron log manifold sold by a vendor named "ILoveTacoTaco" (we're not making this **** up), which while poor in the fitment category and horrid from a fluid-dynamics standpoint, looks to be relatively durable. I've only seen them in a 1.6L design though. Here's an example: 89-93 MAZDA MIATA 1.6L B6 CAST T3/T4 TURBO MANIFOLD 90:eBay Motors (item 250497243749 end time Oct-11-09 18:42:19 PDT)
Your best bet here is probably going to be finding a used manifold (such as from the classifieds here or at the other forum) which was originally from a Bell or FM kit. Both of these are reasonably durable, and fit well. The newer Bell manifolds, in particular, are quite nice.
As to the turbo, this is one place where you can cheap out a bit- maybe. One method would be to surf your local junkyards, looking for an OEM turbo whose turbine inlet flange matches your manifold, and have it rebuilt.
Another is to roll the dice and purchase a Chinese-made turbo from one of the many eBay-based vendors. There's a lot of FUD surrounding these, and some of it is likely warranted. On the other hand, there have been some success stories around here within the past year or so, where various people have installed them on their engine and not had them fail catastrophically, blowing compressor chunks into the engine resulting in its complete destruction. Even Bell Engineering has jumped on board- they spent some time tracking down a couple of specific units, tested them, and now offer them as an alternative to Garrett turbos in the form of the hilariously-named "Shanghai" package.
Downpipes are probably the trickiest bit. You choice of manifold, and the particular turbo that you set upon it, will dictate the required geometry of the downpipe. Unless you buy a manifold & turbo that were both originally part of the same kit, it's likely that no off-the-shelf downpipe will fit properly. Fortunately, this is one thing that a local fab shop can likely handle without too much insanity, provided you supply them with the correct flanges for the job.
I have grave concerns about your budgetary goals. Beyond the obvious big-ticket items (ECU, injectors, wideband O2 sensor, etc) the little stuff does tend to add up quickly. Oil supply and drain lines, intake plumbing, intercooling, misc. hardware, it all sort of adds up without you really noticing. I've probably got close to $4k invested in a turbo system which originally cost $1,200 at this point, and none of it is particularly exotic.
As a rule, the manifolds you find on ebay and from various low-end vendors which are made from welded stainless tubing, be they of the collector variety (as you posted) or the semi-log style (such as this one) are built from relatively thin material, and "designed" (if you can call it that) without much consideration for thermal expansion, bracing, etc. In other words, they are prone to cracking.
There is one exception to this rule, a cast-iron log manifold sold by a vendor named "ILoveTacoTaco" (we're not making this **** up), which while poor in the fitment category and horrid from a fluid-dynamics standpoint, looks to be relatively durable. I've only seen them in a 1.6L design though. Here's an example: 89-93 MAZDA MIATA 1.6L B6 CAST T3/T4 TURBO MANIFOLD 90:eBay Motors (item 250497243749 end time Oct-11-09 18:42:19 PDT)
Your best bet here is probably going to be finding a used manifold (such as from the classifieds here or at the other forum) which was originally from a Bell or FM kit. Both of these are reasonably durable, and fit well. The newer Bell manifolds, in particular, are quite nice.
As to the turbo, this is one place where you can cheap out a bit- maybe. One method would be to surf your local junkyards, looking for an OEM turbo whose turbine inlet flange matches your manifold, and have it rebuilt.
Another is to roll the dice and purchase a Chinese-made turbo from one of the many eBay-based vendors. There's a lot of FUD surrounding these, and some of it is likely warranted. On the other hand, there have been some success stories around here within the past year or so, where various people have installed them on their engine and not had them fail catastrophically, blowing compressor chunks into the engine resulting in its complete destruction. Even Bell Engineering has jumped on board- they spent some time tracking down a couple of specific units, tested them, and now offer them as an alternative to Garrett turbos in the form of the hilariously-named "Shanghai" package.
Downpipes are probably the trickiest bit. You choice of manifold, and the particular turbo that you set upon it, will dictate the required geometry of the downpipe. Unless you buy a manifold & turbo that were both originally part of the same kit, it's likely that no off-the-shelf downpipe will fit properly. Fortunately, this is one thing that a local fab shop can likely handle without too much insanity, provided you supply them with the correct flanges for the job.
I have grave concerns about your budgetary goals. Beyond the obvious big-ticket items (ECU, injectors, wideband O2 sensor, etc) the little stuff does tend to add up quickly. Oil supply and drain lines, intake plumbing, intercooling, misc. hardware, it all sort of adds up without you really noticing. I've probably got close to $4k invested in a turbo system which originally cost $1,200 at this point, and none of it is particularly exotic.
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09-28-2009, 01:17 PM
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I must have missed your post in the "Meet and Greet" section where you described your intended purpose for your build (drag, autoX, track, street) and where you discussed your background skills (certified welder or don't own a screwdriver). I guess I also missed you hanging around for a few weeks reading up on other members' budget build threads to see what did and didn't work in the past. I also don't know where you are from because I missed both your "Meet and Greet" post and you don't have your location listed under your screen name like everyone else. Maybe someone local to you has good used turbo parts but doesn't know you are local.
Etiquette on this forum is that you don't sign up and immediately start asking about Chinese knockoff ebay crap in your first post. It is inconsiderate to start new threads without searching to see if the question has been answered thoughtfully and completely several times already. It junks up the forum with duplicate threads and makes it harder for others to search for information later.
Welcome.
Etiquette on this forum is that you don't sign up and immediately start asking about Chinese knockoff ebay crap in your first post. It is inconsiderate to start new threads without searching to see if the question has been answered thoughtfully and completely several times already. It junks up the forum with duplicate threads and makes it harder for others to search for information later.
Welcome.
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09-28-2009, 01:22 PM
#16
Boost Czar
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I'll sever your right hand, mark it with tattoos of Masonic symbols on the finger tips, shape it like the 'The Hand of the Mysteries' and prop it in the middle of the Capitol's Visitor Center pointing to an 1865 painting of George Washington depicted as a pagan god.
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09-28-2009, 02:20 PM
#19
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I must have missed your post in the "Meet and Greet" section where you described your intended purpose for your build (drag, autoX, track, street) and where you discussed your background skills (certified welder or don't own a screwdriver). I guess I also missed you hanging around for a few weeks reading up on other members' budget build threads to see what did and didn't work in the past. I also don't know where you are from because I missed both your "Meet and Greet" post and you don't have your location listed under your screen name like everyone else. Maybe someone local to you has good used turbo parts but doesn't know you are local.
Etiquette on this forum is that you don't sign up and immediately start asking about Chinese knockoff ebay crap in your first post. It is inconsiderate to start new threads without searching to see if the question has been answered thoughtfully and completely several times already. It junks up the forum with duplicate threads and makes it harder for others to search for information later.
Welcome.
Etiquette on this forum is that you don't sign up and immediately start asking about Chinese knockoff ebay crap in your first post. It is inconsiderate to start new threads without searching to see if the question has been answered thoughtfully and completely several times already. It junks up the forum with duplicate threads and makes it harder for others to search for information later.
Welcome.
Thanks for the welcome though. Hopefully not everyone is this rude here.
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