New guy, build
03-13-2007, 01:57 AM
#1
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New guy, build
Hey guys, 1991 JDM Miata here, found you through clubroaster. So Im planning to work on my car hopefully in less than a year, that is what I bought it for (and to improve my driving). I have no wrenching experience (although a head full of facts and numbers). So here is the idea, buy a Haynes or something similiar, and completely build up a turbo for the first time. I have a general idea and maybe you guys can help me build up something realistic, Im looking to build up something extremely reliable and fun. I want something that feels like a factory special and would run forever like a stock engine.
The Goal
180-200whp, quick spooling (DD/autocross) with seamless transition and bulletproof block. I would not want to spend more than 4500$.
The Plan
1)Buy flying miata rebuild kit, take apart engine and clean it all out.
2)Install FM 9:1 turbo pistons
3)Install FM A-beam rods with valvesprings
or
3)Install only H-Beam rods
4)Turbo
5)Fuel Management
Questions
Now remember, first time working on a car, so I dont want my first experience to end with a blown motor.
1)Should I do it all at once (especially building everything in one pull) or progressively add parts? Im trying to save $ as much as possible but I would rather buy quality parts once.
2)Am I going over the top on anything and would my $ be spent better elsewhere? Because I know the 1.6 motor can handle boost pretty well. I do not want anything maxed out or to be pushing my luck (aka injectors at 80% duty cycle)
3)Greddy or DIY? (FM seems a bit pricey for what they offer, plus I want to learn and do the work myself). Ive seen some nice full turbos (mitsu) with IC on ebay for around 1k. From what I understand I need the turbo manifold, turbo, intercooler (for my power levels), downpipe (is this the header on NA cars?), better injectors/fuel pump or both and fuel management.
4)440cc Injectors good enough? Will it be a good idea to get a fuel pump? Walbro?
5)EManage or MS? (Im not looking forward to this, looks tough)
6)What is this rear end business you guys keep talking about failing, is this the rear axels or differential? Because the snot for differential my car came with is gone, the inside tire is always spinning.
7)Finally how does all of this effect fuel economy and emmisions, as this will be my daily driver I do need it to pass emmisions. Would you just lean it out for emmisions?
Sorry about the long post, but it seems you guys know what you are talking about, thanks for the help
The Goal
180-200whp, quick spooling (DD/autocross) with seamless transition and bulletproof block. I would not want to spend more than 4500$.
The Plan
1)Buy flying miata rebuild kit, take apart engine and clean it all out.
2)Install FM 9:1 turbo pistons
3)Install FM A-beam rods with valvesprings
or
3)Install only H-Beam rods
4)Turbo
5)Fuel Management
Questions
Now remember, first time working on a car, so I dont want my first experience to end with a blown motor.
1)Should I do it all at once (especially building everything in one pull) or progressively add parts? Im trying to save $ as much as possible but I would rather buy quality parts once.
2)Am I going over the top on anything and would my $ be spent better elsewhere? Because I know the 1.6 motor can handle boost pretty well. I do not want anything maxed out or to be pushing my luck (aka injectors at 80% duty cycle)
3)Greddy or DIY? (FM seems a bit pricey for what they offer, plus I want to learn and do the work myself). Ive seen some nice full turbos (mitsu) with IC on ebay for around 1k. From what I understand I need the turbo manifold, turbo, intercooler (for my power levels), downpipe (is this the header on NA cars?), better injectors/fuel pump or both and fuel management.
4)440cc Injectors good enough? Will it be a good idea to get a fuel pump? Walbro?
5)EManage or MS? (Im not looking forward to this, looks tough)
6)What is this rear end business you guys keep talking about failing, is this the rear axels or differential? Because the snot for differential my car came with is gone, the inside tire is always spinning.
7)Finally how does all of this effect fuel economy and emmisions, as this will be my daily driver I do need it to pass emmisions. Would you just lean it out for emmisions?
Sorry about the long post, but it seems you guys know what you are talking about, thanks for the help
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03-13-2007, 02:09 AM
#2
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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dude,you dont need a built motor for 180hp!
get a greddy kit,stripes intecooler kit,a good flowing exhaust,and bigger injectors,
look at braineacks vbgarage for some good info,and his diy in the turbo section.
get a greddy kit,stripes intecooler kit,a good flowing exhaust,and bigger injectors,
look at braineacks vbgarage for some good info,and his diy in the turbo section.
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03-13-2007, 03:00 AM
#3
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Ok Ill try to answer your questions:
1) If its a project car, put it on stands and spend a few months piecing it together. If you have a goal in mind, dont **** around with something you want to upgrade later, just do it right in the begining.
2) Yes, a rebuilt motor is way over the top, if youre that worried find a low mileage engine and have it ready to swap. However I rebuilt my engine just for the sake of building a motor.
3) If it were me, I would spend the money on the Manifold, turbo, and downpipe (aka BEGi which I have). The intercooler I would buy from ebay and run some custom piping.
4) Theres more than one way to add fuel, read braineacks FAQ
5) Read up on them, im not going to advise either way.
6) The 1.6 rear end fails when subjected to more power and agressive driving. Upgrading to a 1.8 rear end solves this. You need the 1.8 Differential, Axles, and Driveshaft to make the swap. Its not that hard to do but seems intimidating. There is also the option for using a RX7 differential (guts swapped into the housing) for more lockup over the torsen too (what im doing)
7) Fuel economy can be anywhere from better to way worse depending on how fuel and timing are controlled.
I really recommend you do some homework on engine management, because there are different ways to manage the extra oxygen entering the combustion chamber. Best book I know of out there to understand pretty much everything you need to know about turbos is "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. Ive read it like 3 times and reference to it frequently.
Hope that helped.
1) If its a project car, put it on stands and spend a few months piecing it together. If you have a goal in mind, dont **** around with something you want to upgrade later, just do it right in the begining.
2) Yes, a rebuilt motor is way over the top, if youre that worried find a low mileage engine and have it ready to swap. However I rebuilt my engine just for the sake of building a motor.
3) If it were me, I would spend the money on the Manifold, turbo, and downpipe (aka BEGi which I have). The intercooler I would buy from ebay and run some custom piping.
4) Theres more than one way to add fuel, read braineacks FAQ
5) Read up on them, im not going to advise either way.
6) The 1.6 rear end fails when subjected to more power and agressive driving. Upgrading to a 1.8 rear end solves this. You need the 1.8 Differential, Axles, and Driveshaft to make the swap. Its not that hard to do but seems intimidating. There is also the option for using a RX7 differential (guts swapped into the housing) for more lockup over the torsen too (what im doing)
7) Fuel economy can be anywhere from better to way worse depending on how fuel and timing are controlled.
I really recommend you do some homework on engine management, because there are different ways to manage the extra oxygen entering the combustion chamber. Best book I know of out there to understand pretty much everything you need to know about turbos is "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. Ive read it like 3 times and reference to it frequently.
Hope that helped.
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03-13-2007, 01:23 PM
#5
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get a 1.8, this turbo:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3480392&rd=1,1
And a link ecu with rx7 injectors (low inp)
Easy, plug n play... When boosting up to 15 psi youll have about 250 hp.
1.8 $400
Turbo: $800
Conversion (1.6-1.8) $190 http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...0%20%201994-97
Injectors (440-550cc) $100-200
Torsen rear and axles +/- 500
Rear muffler(turbo) $250-500
And a link ecu with rx7 injectors (low inp)
Easy, plug n play... When boosting up to 15 psi youll have about 250 hp.
1.8 $400
Turbo: $800
Conversion (1.6-1.8) $190 http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...0%20%201994-97
Injectors (440-550cc) $100-200
Torsen rear and axles +/- 500
Rear muffler(turbo) $250-500
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03-13-2007, 02:20 PM
#6
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Why would I go through the trouble of swapping in a 1.8l? The 1.6 seems fine, and my engine has only 90k on it, however 1 bar of bost seems a bit high... (if the JDM peoples did actually not screw around with it)
But basically you guys are saying the motor will still be very reliable for an extended period of time with no need for upgrading?
And is it not a bad idea to buy used turbos? I mean you do not know a bout shaft play or anything, and a person could be selling it because they drove it to death no?
What about this turbo?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/BOLT-ON-MHI-MAZDA...QQcmdZViewItem
But basically you guys are saying the motor will still be very reliable for an extended period of time with no need for upgrading?
And is it not a bad idea to buy used turbos? I mean you do not know a bout shaft play or anything, and a person could be selling it because they drove it to death no?
What about this turbo?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/BOLT-ON-MHI-MAZDA...QQcmdZViewItem
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03-13-2007, 02:26 PM
#7
You want to go cheap..you can do a complete 200hp greddy setup REAL cheap. Spool is at 3kish though. For a little more you can do a t-25/28 setup which will spool much faster. No need to build an engine for this type of work, most people here are pushing 200+-250 on stock internals.
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03-13-2007, 05:45 PM
#11
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Yep i mean a catback... With the above setup he can run 250hp no problem...
But consider the upgrades on the 94+ it might be a nice option to buy those miata's.
For the 1.6 you have a lot of options.
Starting with the basic greddy. Fully upgradable to a 15psi 240hp setup
Hks... like the greddy, no ic but a t25g turbo...(high price)
FM/begi nice setup... I like the begi sets better due to the metal ic hoses, but FM has the nicest management. (both are $$$)
AVO is the australian turbo set, nice turbo mounting but also $$$
Or a custom build...
For a custom build get a Garrett t25-28 (or gt25r-28r, bb)
Manifold: hks seems to be a good choice...also the greddy if you can find it...
Engine management GReddy emanage (blue) and 305cc injectors.
A bov
IC
But again read,read,read.
The greddy gives you a jump start with a lot of components you don't need anymore after you upgrade...
Almost everyone is only using the turbo, oil feed line, and manifold(some upgrade these too). But upgrading from a basic greddy to a 240 hp animal can be very interesting, you really learn a lot about boosting an engine.
So decide what you want: a lot of: do it yourself, or a prepared kit.
Don't upgrade the oem block with very special parts like the FM pistons and Rods...
You really don't need them..
The stock block manages well until 15psi...
Take your money elseware and get a 1.8 rear diff and shafts...(youll need them)
Get a good clutch (act hd seems to be good) and a 1.8 flywheel (1.8 act clutch)
This will hold the drivetrain intact till 250hp...
Whant quick spoolup? Get the garret gt2554r
But consider the upgrades on the 94+ it might be a nice option to buy those miata's.
For the 1.6 you have a lot of options.
Starting with the basic greddy. Fully upgradable to a 15psi 240hp setup
Hks... like the greddy, no ic but a t25g turbo...(high price)
FM/begi nice setup... I like the begi sets better due to the metal ic hoses, but FM has the nicest management. (both are $$$)
AVO is the australian turbo set, nice turbo mounting but also $$$
Or a custom build...
For a custom build get a Garrett t25-28 (or gt25r-28r, bb)
Manifold: hks seems to be a good choice...also the greddy if you can find it...
Engine management GReddy emanage (blue) and 305cc injectors.
A bov
IC
But again read,read,read.
The greddy gives you a jump start with a lot of components you don't need anymore after you upgrade...
Almost everyone is only using the turbo, oil feed line, and manifold(some upgrade these too). But upgrading from a basic greddy to a 240 hp animal can be very interesting, you really learn a lot about boosting an engine.
So decide what you want: a lot of: do it yourself, or a prepared kit.
Don't upgrade the oem block with very special parts like the FM pistons and Rods...
You really don't need them..
The stock block manages well until 15psi...
Take your money elseware and get a 1.8 rear diff and shafts...(youll need them)
Get a good clutch (act hd seems to be good) and a 1.8 flywheel (1.8 act clutch)
This will hold the drivetrain intact till 250hp...
Whant quick spoolup? Get the garret gt2554r
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09-24-2008, 07:39 PM
#14
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cerritos, SoCalifornia
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if your goal is 180-200 hp,
then everyone is right, a built engine would be overkill.
with your budget, that goal could easily be met.
Begi seems to be the majority favorite when it comes to turbo.
You can look for used pieces here and there for real cheap.
Begi manifold, Begi DP, garret t2554 are going to be your main pick ups for now.
Probably around $1000 used all together.
That will get you around 150-160 around 5-6 psi.
boosting any higher will require an upgraded 1.6 drivetrain + fuel management to get the most of the turbo. MegaSquirt Plug-N-Play highly recommended! No more fiddling around with "pickyback" systems when they are going to have to be replaced anyways when you decide to boost higher. It will be the last thing you will ever need to buy concerning your fuel management.
The 1.6 drivetrain definetly cant handle launching off the line above 6 psi as you are really pushing it to it's limits. A cheapest and most efficient upgrade would be from a 94-97 NA swap of the torsen differential, drive shaft, axles, and an aftermarket clutch and lightweight flywheel.
With a fully upgraded drivetrain and fuel management, your possibilities for your Miata a literally endless. This setup could take you all the way up to 240 hp.
then everyone is right, a built engine would be overkill.
with your budget, that goal could easily be met.
Begi seems to be the majority favorite when it comes to turbo.
You can look for used pieces here and there for real cheap.
Begi manifold, Begi DP, garret t2554 are going to be your main pick ups for now.
Probably around $1000 used all together.
That will get you around 150-160 around 5-6 psi.
boosting any higher will require an upgraded 1.6 drivetrain + fuel management to get the most of the turbo. MegaSquirt Plug-N-Play highly recommended! No more fiddling around with "pickyback" systems when they are going to have to be replaced anyways when you decide to boost higher. It will be the last thing you will ever need to buy concerning your fuel management.
The 1.6 drivetrain definetly cant handle launching off the line above 6 psi as you are really pushing it to it's limits. A cheapest and most efficient upgrade would be from a 94-97 NA swap of the torsen differential, drive shaft, axles, and an aftermarket clutch and lightweight flywheel.
With a fully upgraded drivetrain and fuel management, your possibilities for your Miata a literally endless. This setup could take you all the way up to 240 hp.
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