400whp motor build plan? tweak it please
09-22-2011, 11:09 PM
#41
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Here are his results:
https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-timesheets-21/what-youve-been-waiting-results-inside-52669/
My 2871R makes more power from idle to 6000rpm. Not to pick on Jason, but he is a perfect example of going way too big, not understanding the consequences, and ending up with a dyno queen car.
When TSE builds a 300whp or 400whp car, we don't build a dyno queen. I can't stand dyno queen cars. They are great for the purposes of internet dick-waving, but in the real world my 350whp car will be faster than a dyno-queen 425whp car. My car makes 295wtq, but it also makes 90% of peak torque from 4000rpm to 7000rpm - big power doesn't get more usable than that.
https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-timesheets-21/what-youve-been-waiting-results-inside-52669/
My 2871R makes more power from idle to 6000rpm. Not to pick on Jason, but he is a perfect example of going way too big, not understanding the consequences, and ending up with a dyno queen car.
When TSE builds a 300whp or 400whp car, we don't build a dyno queen. I can't stand dyno queen cars. They are great for the purposes of internet dick-waving, but in the real world my 350whp car will be faster than a dyno-queen 425whp car. My car makes 295wtq, but it also makes 90% of peak torque from 4000rpm to 7000rpm - big power doesn't get more usable than that.
A bonus if i went to your numbers my current clutch is rated for 310tq so i almost dont even have to upgrade that.
For a the record to everyone I dont want a dyno queen, i`m going to drive this car and drive it hard and alot.
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09-22-2011, 11:53 PM
#42
Listen to Savington if you want a car that will perform on the track where it counts. He knows what he's talking about and has experience with different Miata turbo setups from a tuning/build perspective. There's not many folks on this forum that have had a legitimate 400+ whp setup. There seems to be even less in this thread offering advice. That should tell you something.
Look at what others in the past have done, then see if you truly believe their setup coincides with the numbers they made, then look at what they did with the car once it made the numbers. If at that time you feel it's a legitimate build then take what you can from it to make your own car faster. As for listening to the internet nutswingers, they sound like they know what their talking about, but I don't find many 400+ whp builds around here. From where I'm sitting out in the cheap seats, there's only two impressive turbo cars at the moment in this forum (Savington and Bundy) and they are doing it with less than 400 to the wheels, but most importantly they are doing it by driving the snot out of the cars rather than beating everyone with brute power.
Look at what others in the past have done, then see if you truly believe their setup coincides with the numbers they made, then look at what they did with the car once it made the numbers. If at that time you feel it's a legitimate build then take what you can from it to make your own car faster. As for listening to the internet nutswingers, they sound like they know what their talking about, but I don't find many 400+ whp builds around here. From where I'm sitting out in the cheap seats, there's only two impressive turbo cars at the moment in this forum (Savington and Bundy) and they are doing it with less than 400 to the wheels, but most importantly they are doing it by driving the snot out of the cars rather than beating everyone with brute power.
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09-23-2011, 12:27 AM
#43
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not to interupt, but I also plan to push for 400whp later on and so far my pick of turbo when comes crunh time later on is the borg warner s256, I checked though the GT series compressor maps and wasn't impressed, couldn't get it lined up in areas. So far this was best line up for my goals, turbine maps unknown, hard to say.
I tried getting EFR to line up but wasn't succuseful with any of those.
I tried getting EFR to line up but wasn't succuseful with any of those.
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09-23-2011, 01:46 AM
#44
This is terrible advice. Why would you suggest a 600whp turbo for a 400whp goal? 
With a good intake manifold and a T3-flanged 3071R (not the baby T25 turbine wheel, the real 60mm T3 wheel), you may get there on pump gas with a good intake manifold. I would start with a .63a/r, but you may need to try the .82a/r to keep the TIP low enough to avoid detonation on pump gas. Expect to run 21-23psi with that turbo to hit 400whp. You are going to want a VVT head to help with spool and low-end torque.
Or, look into the EFR7064 from Borg Warner. There aren't a lot of real-world results out there yet, but on paper you should have very little trouble hitting 400whp with that turbo.
Mighty Mouse, how big is the turbine wheel on your 2871R? Is it an ATP housing? Garrett never made a 2871 with a .63a/r turbine housing, and the T3 exhaust wheel is much larger.
With a good intake manifold and a T3-flanged 3071R (not the baby T25 turbine wheel, the real 60mm T3 wheel), you may get there on pump gas with a good intake manifold. I would start with a .63a/r, but you may need to try the .82a/r to keep the TIP low enough to avoid detonation on pump gas. Expect to run 21-23psi with that turbo to hit 400whp. You are going to want a VVT head to help with spool and low-end torque.
Or, look into the EFR7064 from Borg Warner. There aren't a lot of real-world results out there yet, but on paper you should have very little trouble hitting 400whp with that turbo.
Mighty Mouse, how big is the turbine wheel on your 2871R? Is it an ATP housing? Garrett never made a 2871 with a .63a/r turbine housing, and the T3 exhaust wheel is much larger.
If this is a track car not a street or drag car i would prolly go with the 30r with the tial vband but in Florida specially Tampa area, most performance cars are used for street racing, we got alot of street racing out here like ALOT.
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09-23-2011, 04:05 PM
#46
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Fully built 94 ramhorn mani godspeed 3076 @27+psi e85 all supporting mods.
It looks like dogshit: primered black, ugly wheels, no accessories, etc. So everyone (although pretty much everyone knows by now) kept thinking its a slow POS. He hit 4xxxwhp on the dyno before the clutch slipped so its well into the 400's possibly 500 even. He's on here but doesn't post much at all.
Go on youtube and go on TheBayAreaRacing channel. Look up "turbo miata". Should be a couple vids of it.
It looks like dogshit: primered black, ugly wheels, no accessories, etc. So everyone (although pretty much everyone knows by now) kept thinking its a slow POS. He hit 4xxxwhp on the dyno before the clutch slipped so its well into the 400's possibly 500 even. He's on here but doesn't post much at all.
Go on youtube and go on TheBayAreaRacing channel. Look up "turbo miata". Should be a couple vids of it.
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i saw the vid
09-24-2011, 05:13 AM
#50
i didnt bother to read the other posts, im making 418whp on my motor, and it has alot left in it, that was on 18psi and im running VP C12 race gas.
your bottom end should be good although i dont like eagle rods and i think you would be spending money better to buy carrillo super a beams.
the head is almost the same thing that i am running, im not sure how extensive the port work your doing is, but the head is where your gonna make the power, my head is race ported, with 1mm over supertech valves on the intake and exhaust(you dont need inconel) i use just the single supertech springs(because thats what i needed for spring pressure for my cams, you dont need to run big dual springs, it all depends on what the cam mfg wants for spring pressure, to much pressure will cause premature wear) and i have integral R3 intake cam and R1 exhaust cam. i highly suggest you get bigger cams for your goals, you dont need massive lopy monsters like mine but something in the 270's on duration and a bit more lift. i also have a custom sheetmetal intake manifold,and custom synapse turbo manifold. i run a gt3071, hope this helps
here is a link to my build thread, i have pictures through the whole engine machining and assembly. i worked in a race engine shop for 5 years as a machinist. if you have any questions about the engine build pm me
https://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/my-tube-front-drifter-17881/
your bottom end should be good although i dont like eagle rods and i think you would be spending money better to buy carrillo super a beams.
the head is almost the same thing that i am running, im not sure how extensive the port work your doing is, but the head is where your gonna make the power, my head is race ported, with 1mm over supertech valves on the intake and exhaust(you dont need inconel) i use just the single supertech springs(because thats what i needed for spring pressure for my cams, you dont need to run big dual springs, it all depends on what the cam mfg wants for spring pressure, to much pressure will cause premature wear) and i have integral R3 intake cam and R1 exhaust cam. i highly suggest you get bigger cams for your goals, you dont need massive lopy monsters like mine but something in the 270's on duration and a bit more lift. i also have a custom sheetmetal intake manifold,and custom synapse turbo manifold. i run a gt3071, hope this helps
here is a link to my build thread, i have pictures through the whole engine machining and assembly. i worked in a race engine shop for 5 years as a machinist. if you have any questions about the engine build pm me
https://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/my-tube-front-drifter-17881/
Last edited by ctdrftna; 09-24-2011 at 05:22 AM. Reason: adding link
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09-24-2011, 03:40 PM
#51
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6000-8000 is 2,000 RPM of power band...which is 25% of a power band. Not about being a dyno queen...I use my car for highway pulls etc. a street car, not road racing. Straight line on the highway I would kill you. Anyway, with my new set up I bet I move my power band to the left a good 500-1,000 RPM and add another 1,000 RPM to my rev limit with about 200 whp more.
Also, I made at LEAST 50 whp more then you at the same/near same boost level while you where on a better fuel and more displacement. It shows whose set up is more efficient.
Also, I made at LEAST 50 whp more then you at the same/near same boost level while you where on a better fuel and more displacement. It shows whose set up is more efficient.
You are the definition of a dyno queen. You'r car isn't even complete and you're talking about how it would kill a track-prepped car in a straight line. Do you really think he gives a **** about freeway runs? A 400whp miata is slow? That's only because you can't really drive one, hoss. You're embarrassing yourself.
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09-26-2011, 01:22 PM
#58
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Saw this in this months grassroots and thought it might help a few of you.
www.tinyurl.com/3z838g5
Pretty cool way to match a turbo to your car/needs
www.tinyurl.com/3z838g5
Pretty cool way to match a turbo to your car/needs
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09-26-2011, 01:47 PM
#59
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OK serious time.
I would recommend this turbo:
http://www.diesel-plus.com/dd_turbo.cfm?npid=9769
Borg Warner S200/S256 P/N 317222
Bit larger than a GT30R, smaller than a GT35R.
T4 frame, twin scroll turbine housing, .85 A/R, rebuildable for cheap, anti-surge, oil feed only. Use with either a twin scroll manifold (ARTech can build you one for $800) or undivided manifold and be baller and get a quick spool valve like me.
I would recommend this turbo:
http://www.diesel-plus.com/dd_turbo.cfm?npid=9769
Borg Warner S200/S256 P/N 317222
Bit larger than a GT30R, smaller than a GT35R.
T4 frame, twin scroll turbine housing, .85 A/R, rebuildable for cheap, anti-surge, oil feed only. Use with either a twin scroll manifold (ARTech can build you one for $800) or undivided manifold and be baller and get a quick spool valve like me.
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