v6 swap options
#1
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v6 swap options
Hey guys. It's been awhile since I've had much to say in Miata-land since I sold my turbo'd Miata...which was since driven into a brick wall. :(
I now own an '04 RX-8. LOVE the car. HATE the engine. (Sorry rotory guys) I've been considering v6 options and it dawned on me, don't alot of Miata guys yern for a v6? Well...I found one with bolt-on RWD options. It's VERY similar to the KL but by golly there's a transmission that fits it.
Who's interested? Should I start a thread on it here or are there enough swap threads going?
I now own an '04 RX-8. LOVE the car. HATE the engine. (Sorry rotory guys) I've been considering v6 options and it dawned on me, don't alot of Miata guys yern for a v6? Well...I found one with bolt-on RWD options. It's VERY similar to the KL but by golly there's a transmission that fits it.
Who's interested? Should I start a thread on it here or are there enough swap threads going?
#5
https://www.miataturbo.net/cars-sale...2412500-67451/
CodingParadox has a KL Miata as well, no idea if it sold or not.
CodingParadox has a KL Miata as well, no idea if it sold or not.
#7
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Engine in question... Isuzu 6VD1 (3.2) and 6VE1 (3.4). Aluminum block, DOHC, 75deg V (short height), forged rods, cast crank, open deck, and COP ignition. Built by Honda. They can be found everywhere. Troopers, Amigos, Rodeos, and Honda Passport as well as various Isuzu and Holden trucks. Good news is, there's bolt-on options to bolt a Toyota Supra (r154 ect) transmission to it. It has the GM 60-deg bolt pattern. Hello options.
Check out the 6-bolt mains and main bearing support plate with the oil rail in it. The forged rods have oil squirters also (like the SR20).
Check out the 6-bolt mains and main bearing support plate with the oil rail in it. The forged rods have oil squirters also (like the SR20).
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#11
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Yes I would be. I'll use the electronics that ran that engine before. The problem I'll have is getting the RX-8s canbus cluster working. There are chip swaps available for it so it's unlikely it can be reflashed through the OBDII port. Nothing a piggyback can't solve. Depending on the year ('92-95 and '96-04) I can get cable or drive-by-wire electronics.
I really wish I had an MX-5 now. This would be a cakewalk.
Another interesting tid-bit. The image below is a production powerplant for a plane using the Isuzu v6. It's supercharged and rated at 350hp. Weight (INCLUDING the prop reduction, supercharger, and alternator) is stated at 352.74lb. The reduction itself is stated 66.14lb. That leaves 286.6lb leaf for an impressively light 350hp supercharged v6.
I really wish I had an MX-5 now. This would be a cakewalk.
Another interesting tid-bit. The image below is a production powerplant for a plane using the Isuzu v6. It's supercharged and rated at 350hp. Weight (INCLUDING the prop reduction, supercharger, and alternator) is stated at 352.74lb. The reduction itself is stated 66.14lb. That leaves 286.6lb leaf for an impressively light 350hp supercharged v6.
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Hey what's up Split. How you been? Hell yeah lets do eeet! You hold the hood open and I'll kick it off the roof. Seriously though. If I get this nailed down you guys are golden for v6 swaps. The Dodge Dakota 2.5L bell housing has a GM 60 on the engine side and a Toyota on the transmission side. Here's just a few transmissions that will bolt up. Including a 6-speed from the Supra. Here's 13 transmission options for it.
Some Toyota transmission info...
R150 - A 2WD transmission found in many Toyota trucks.
Ratios:
* First Gear: 3.830:1
* Second Gear: 2.062:1
* Third Gear: 1.436:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.838:1
R150F - A 4WD transmission found in many Toyota trucks.
Ratios:
* First Gear: 3.830:1
* Second Gear: 2.062:1
* Third Gear: 1.436:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.838:1
R151F - A 4WD transmission found in many Toyota trucks.
Ratios:
* First Gear: 4.313:1
* Second Gear: 2.330:1
* Third Gear: 1.436:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.838:1
R154 - This transmission is a robust 5-speed transmission found in the 1987-1992 MKIII Supra Turbo.
Ratios:
* First Gear: 3.250:1
* Second Gear: 1.955:1
* Third Gear: 1.310:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.753:1
V160 - Toyota MKIV Supra 6-speed
1- 3.827
2- 2.360
3- 1.685
4- 1.312
5- 1.000
6- 0.793
But wait there's more!
Jeep AX15 and NV3550
Isuzu AR5 (originally bolted to the Isuzu 3.2L and 3.5L v6s)
Jeep AX5
Toyota W55, W56, W57 and W58
The W-series Toyota 5-speeds share a common face pattern on the case. Any '88-99 Jeep 2.5L bellhousing (NOT Dakota) will bolt a Toyota W series transmission to a 60 degree GM bolt pattern.
Some Toyota transmission info...
R150 - A 2WD transmission found in many Toyota trucks.
Ratios:
* First Gear: 3.830:1
* Second Gear: 2.062:1
* Third Gear: 1.436:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.838:1
R150F - A 4WD transmission found in many Toyota trucks.
Ratios:
* First Gear: 3.830:1
* Second Gear: 2.062:1
* Third Gear: 1.436:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.838:1
R151F - A 4WD transmission found in many Toyota trucks.
Ratios:
* First Gear: 4.313:1
* Second Gear: 2.330:1
* Third Gear: 1.436:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.838:1
R154 - This transmission is a robust 5-speed transmission found in the 1987-1992 MKIII Supra Turbo.
Ratios:
* First Gear: 3.250:1
* Second Gear: 1.955:1
* Third Gear: 1.310:1
* Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
* Fifth Gear: 0.753:1
V160 - Toyota MKIV Supra 6-speed
1- 3.827
2- 2.360
3- 1.685
4- 1.312
5- 1.000
6- 0.793
But wait there's more!
Jeep AX15 and NV3550
Isuzu AR5 (originally bolted to the Isuzu 3.2L and 3.5L v6s)
Jeep AX5
Toyota W55, W56, W57 and W58
The W-series Toyota 5-speeds share a common face pattern on the case. Any '88-99 Jeep 2.5L bellhousing (NOT Dakota) will bolt a Toyota W series transmission to a 60 degree GM bolt pattern.
Last edited by lazzer408; 12-28-2012 at 10:31 PM.
#14
I'm interested to see your results. I've always wanted to do V6 but most suck or are unpractical right now (Ford's new 3.5L ecoboost engine). I looked a little bit at Isuzu engines as I think the mazda KL is very similar or something, don't quote me though. I like all the transmission options too. That's another annoying thing about the KL swap.
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Here's some interesting figures I calculated. I'm pretty sure I didn't screw this up.
Calculated rear wheel lb-ft torque.
Gear----Isuzu v6 w/ Toyota R154 (4.10 r&p)----Stock '95 Miata (4.10 r&p)
1-------------3607---------------------------------------1505
2-------------2170---------------------------------------868
3-------------1455---------------------------------------635
4-------------1110---------------------------------------475.6
5-------------835----------------------------------------387
205/60/15. 5th gear.
Equal 65mph@2850rpm
Red is Miata, Blue is v6+R154 (4th gear is equal). It should feel very close to the stock Miata gears. Shift points are very close to the same except for that nice .753 overdrive.
Calculated rear wheel lb-ft torque.
Gear----Isuzu v6 w/ Toyota R154 (4.10 r&p)----Stock '95 Miata (4.10 r&p)
1-------------3607---------------------------------------1505
2-------------2170---------------------------------------868
3-------------1455---------------------------------------635
4-------------1110---------------------------------------475.6
5-------------835----------------------------------------387
205/60/15. 5th gear.
Equal 65mph@2850rpm
Red is Miata, Blue is v6+R154 (4th gear is equal). It should feel very close to the stock Miata gears. Shift points are very close to the same except for that nice .753 overdrive.
Last edited by lazzer408; 12-29-2012 at 12:31 AM.
#16
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I'm interested to see your results. I've always wanted to do V6 but most suck or are unpractical right now (Ford's new 3.5L ecoboost engine). I looked a little bit at Isuzu engines as I think the mazda KL is very similar or something, don't quote me though. I like all the transmission options too. That's another annoying thing about the KL swap.
#18
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Weight. The v6 is more then 100lbs lighter then an LS1 for example. It's also more manageable. There's horsepower, then there's usable horsepower. Race you through the turns!
Last edited by lazzer408; 12-29-2012 at 04:38 AM.
#19
I wouldn't be mentioning weight as an advantage until you see the engine, with the necessary ancillaries on a scale.
The supercharger is another 25lbs, which would imply the engine itself is lighter then the alloy Honda 4-bangers. I dunno, but general physics tells me that 2 extra con-rods and pistons + 4 added valves + 2 extra intake and exhaust manifold runners etc do not usually add up to a nett weight saving.
The supercharger is another 25lbs, which would imply the engine itself is lighter then the alloy Honda 4-bangers. I dunno, but general physics tells me that 2 extra con-rods and pistons + 4 added valves + 2 extra intake and exhaust manifold runners etc do not usually add up to a nett weight saving.