Compression Ratios and Forced Induction
#144
I'm not wrong. I'm not in a hole. BSFC is not LIMITED to .5-.6. It's just a number. .5-.6 may be TYPICAL, but it's not the only range of values. If you read said "source" you'll see it says "general values".
If you reread my post on BSFC, you'll see I said the initial value .5 was ARBITRARY. Do you see that? Do you know what it means? I'll explain. It means it doesn't matter. It's simply a point that I choose for illustrative purposes. It could be more or less, but I picked .5 to ILLUSTRATE THAT YOUR PREVIOUS MATH WAS WRONG. Based on my initial numbers, my formulas are correct. I could have used .5 and .55 or .6 and .55 or whatever the hell I wanted. I was showing you how to use a formula you could not figure out how to use. The end. I was not wrong. Stop saying I was.
If you reread my post on BSFC, you'll see I said the initial value .5 was ARBITRARY. Do you see that? Do you know what it means? I'll explain. It means it doesn't matter. It's simply a point that I choose for illustrative purposes. It could be more or less, but I picked .5 to ILLUSTRATE THAT YOUR PREVIOUS MATH WAS WRONG. Based on my initial numbers, my formulas are correct. I could have used .5 and .55 or .6 and .55 or whatever the hell I wanted. I was showing you how to use a formula you could not figure out how to use. The end. I was not wrong. Stop saying I was.
#146
Really, the biggest issue with static CR is the margin of error. It is much easier for the average Joe to run a lower CR and high boost because there is a much larger margin for error than there is with high Static CR. But you will lack the efficiency and the HP on low boost.
I've ran 28psi on a 7.8:1 compression engine on gasoline. Try running 28psi on an 11:1 compression engine and get back to me.
#147
Speaking of all this fear about engine knock, anyone here have any experience with Evans Coolant? My N/A experience with this stuff would support the idea that this could really help those with this engine configuration.
www.evanscooling.com
(This argument is on the verge of petering, I thought it a good time to offer this possible 'cure' against knock. If the group disagrees, feel free to delete this post and I will start a thread on it instead)
www.evanscooling.com
(This argument is on the verge of petering, I thought it a good time to offer this possible 'cure' against knock. If the group disagrees, feel free to delete this post and I will start a thread on it instead)
#148
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
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Speaking of all this fear about engine knock, anyone here have any experience with Evans Coolant? My N/A experience with this stuff would support the idea that this could really help those with this engine configuration.
www.evanscooling.com
(This argument is on the verge of petering, I thought it a good time to offer this possible 'cure' against knock. If the group disagrees, feel free to delete this post and I will start a thread on it instead)
www.evanscooling.com
(This argument is on the verge of petering, I thought it a good time to offer this possible 'cure' against knock. If the group disagrees, feel free to delete this post and I will start a thread on it instead)
#149
I don't believe I offered it as something 'new', only as something that would help cure problems with knock...
http://www.evanscooling.com/main21.htm
Apologies for their website in advance, it really sucks navigating.
Historically, racing cars have utilized NPG coolant to effectively thermally manage their engine running with up to a 16.5 to 1 compression ratio.
Apologies for their website in advance, it really sucks navigating.
Last edited by fahrvergnugen; 10-03-2008 at 09:47 PM.
#150
Shhh...wait for his source to tell him the same thing.
Ah...let me guess, 6-bolt 4G63? Stock turbo? If stock turbo, you could have gotten away with 9:1 and made more power, had more low-end power, and spool faster. But, of course, this hasn't been proven to be true in this thread yet, so it's speculation.
A few people at MSR used it. It eats aluminum heads. So I would not advise using it.
It's not a question of what's easier, it's a question of what's feasible. I consider the Turbo F1 era to be the pinnacle of turbocharged engine technology. Do you think they ran high compression or low compression?
I've ran 28psi on a 7.8:1 compression engine on gasoline. Try running 28psi on an 11:1 compression engine and get back to me.
I've ran 28psi on a 7.8:1 compression engine on gasoline. Try running 28psi on an 11:1 compression engine and get back to me.
Speaking of all this fear about engine knock, anyone here have any experience with Evans Coolant? My N/A experience with this stuff would support the idea that this could really help those with this engine configuration.
www.evanscooling.com
(This argument is on the verge of petering, I thought it a good time to offer this possible 'cure' against knock. If the group disagrees, feel free to delete this post and I will start a thread on it instead)
www.evanscooling.com
(This argument is on the verge of petering, I thought it a good time to offer this possible 'cure' against knock. If the group disagrees, feel free to delete this post and I will start a thread on it instead)
#151
You're being a pompous ***, acting like you knew knew about c/r and the effect on VE. If you look at post #39 on page 2, I was the one that said
I have a theory as to one advantage that high c/r has that I have not seen in a reference. It will have *slightly* higher VE because the clearance volume (c.c. volume at TDC) is smaller and thus:
a) leaves a smaller amount of dead exhaust gas in the cylinder and
b) the initial "suction" on the downstroke is stronger leading to more suckage of intake charge / more initial velocity.
(a) may be extra significant with high exhaust backpressure i.e. turbo.
This may be responsible for some of the gains people see with higher c/r. Plus maybe the piston tops of hi perf hi c/r aftermarket pistons make for better flow and thus VE than factory pistons which are designed for emissions too.
a) leaves a smaller amount of dead exhaust gas in the cylinder and
b) the initial "suction" on the downstroke is stronger leading to more suckage of intake charge / more initial velocity.
(a) may be extra significant with high exhaust backpressure i.e. turbo.
This may be responsible for some of the gains people see with higher c/r. Plus maybe the piston tops of hi perf hi c/r aftermarket pistons make for better flow and thus VE than factory pistons which are designed for emissions too.
#152
I'm not wrong. I'm not in a hole. BSFC is not LIMITED to .5-.6. It's just a number. .5-.6 may be TYPICAL, but it's not the only range of values. If you read said "source" you'll see it says "general values".
If you reread my post on BSFC, you'll see I said the initial value .5 was ARBITRARY. Do you see that? Do you know what it means? I'll explain. It means it doesn't matter. It's simply a point that I choose for illustrative purposes. It could be more or less, but I picked .5 to ILLUSTRATE THAT YOUR PREVIOUS MATH WAS WRONG. Based on my initial numbers, my formulas are correct. I could have used .5 and .55 or .6 and .55 or whatever the hell I wanted. I was showing you how to use a formula you could not figure out how to use. The end. I was not wrong. Stop saying I was.
If you reread my post on BSFC, you'll see I said the initial value .5 was ARBITRARY. Do you see that? Do you know what it means? I'll explain. It means it doesn't matter. It's simply a point that I choose for illustrative purposes. It could be more or less, but I picked .5 to ILLUSTRATE THAT YOUR PREVIOUS MATH WAS WRONG. Based on my initial numbers, my formulas are correct. I could have used .5 and .55 or .6 and .55 or whatever the hell I wanted. I was showing you how to use a formula you could not figure out how to use. The end. I was not wrong. Stop saying I was.
Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC). BSFC describes the fuel flow rate required to generate each horsepower. General values of BSFC for turbocharged gasoline engines range from 0.50 to 0.60 and higher.
Lower BSFC means that the engine requires less fuel to generate a given horsepower. Race fuels and aggressive tuning are required to reach the low end of the BSFC range described above.
Lower BSFC means that the engine requires less fuel to generate a given horsepower. Race fuels and aggressive tuning are required to reach the low end of the BSFC range described above.
Let's try this again. I did it on spreadsheet so everyone can see everything.
HP A/F BSFC
350 11 0.55
WA 35.29166667
WA R TM VE VD N
35.29166667 639.6 106 0.96 97.632 7500
12776063.3 / 351475.2
MAP 36.34982867
HP A/F BSFC
350 11 0.54
WA 34.65
WA R TM VE VD N
34.65 639.6 106 0.96 97.632 7500
12543771.24 / 351475.2
MAP 35.68892269
Difference 0.660905976
350 11 0.55
WA 35.29166667
WA R TM VE VD N
35.29166667 639.6 106 0.96 97.632 7500
12776063.3 / 351475.2
MAP 36.34982867
HP A/F BSFC
350 11 0.54
WA 34.65
WA R TM VE VD N
34.65 639.6 106 0.96 97.632 7500
12543771.24 / 351475.2
MAP 35.68892269
Difference 0.660905976
HP A/F BSFC
350 11 0.55
WA 35.29166667
WA R TM VE VD N
35.29166667 639.6 106 0.96 97.632 7500
12776063.3 / 351475.2
MAP 36.34982867
HP A/F BSFC
350 11 0.55
WA 35.29166667
WA R TM VE VD N
35.29166667 639.6 106 0.97 97.632 7500
12776063.3 / 355136.4
MAP 35.97508816
Difference 0.374740502
350 11 0.55
WA 35.29166667
WA R TM VE VD N
35.29166667 639.6 106 0.96 97.632 7500
12776063.3 / 351475.2
MAP 36.34982867
HP A/F BSFC
350 11 0.55
WA 35.29166667
WA R TM VE VD N
35.29166667 639.6 106 0.97 97.632 7500
12776063.3 / 355136.4
MAP 35.97508816
Difference 0.374740502
Now for the formula with both changes
HP A/F BSFC
350 11 0.55
WA 35.29166667
WA R TM VE VD N
35.29166667 639.6 106 0.97 97.632 7500
12776063.3 / 355136.4
MAP 35.97508816
HP A/F BSFC
350 11 0.56
WA 35.93333333
WA R TM VE VD N
35.93333333 639.6 106 0.96 97.632 7500
13008355.36 / 351475.2
MAP 37.01073464
Difference 1.035646477
350 11 0.55
WA 35.29166667
WA R TM VE VD N
35.29166667 639.6 106 0.97 97.632 7500
12776063.3 / 355136.4
MAP 35.97508816
HP A/F BSFC
350 11 0.56
WA 35.93333333
WA R TM VE VD N
35.93333333 639.6 106 0.96 97.632 7500
13008355.36 / 351475.2
MAP 37.01073464
Difference 1.035646477
I'm awaiting your numbers.
Thanks.
#153
Do you have any proof for this?
I've used it for more than five years with -no- wear to the head (several 4-cylinder VWs). What's more, a mechanic friend who has used it for the same period of time has converted at least 20 cars/trucks/vans to it, again with no wear to the head and no other adverse affects. In fact, it is one of his favorite mods to do to the VW Vanagon. They had a wet-sleeve design, in that the steel piston sleeve is bathed in coolant, and it seals to the aluminum head by way of an 0-ring. Vanagons have a nasty history of corroding at this point what with the dissimilar metals only slightly separated. With evans, not only has there been no cooling failures, there is no increase in corrosion since there is no longer any water to cause it.
#157
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
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The point is, that if one wants to try it out, then all one has to do is go buy some propylene glycol antifreeze (pet safe, enviro friendly, whatever) at the auto parts store and use it undiluted. You do not have to buy their stuff which is overpriced at $30+ a gallon.
#159
Evans is the only coolant on the market that is 100% PG; they are also the engineers of using it in a cooling system. To me, that is good insurance. That, and I can't find any source for pure PG anywhere else.
It's expensive sure, but if it is pure it will be a lifetime coolant.
Back to the point of my post; I believe this will help inhibit knock. Does no one here use this in their Miata, or will I be the first?