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Old 08-23-2013, 05:37 PM   #741
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Skunk tb will work with the oem idle valve.
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:23 PM   #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
I need to check and see if I have a drawing of the intake flange kicking around on my hard drive. I'd be totally cool with uploading it in, dwg, dxf, sldrprt, stp, and iges, which should cover every freaking piece of software and mechanism for cutting one.
Way ahead of you. I can send it to you when I get to work this week.
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:45 PM   #743
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We have a #4771 Edelbrock Performer-X at the fabricator being put together this week. For an N/A engine with stock or mild race cams, we want the runners just a shade under 11" long. Most aftermarket Honda B series manifold are based on the Type R B18C with shorter runners. The Performer is a bit longer and smaller volume runner so it's closer to our target. A friend did some controlled testing of various runner lengths on a supercharged BP4W head and found best power at around 10.5" runner length. Not sure how that applies to turbos but I have a feeling they'll respond best to the same runner lengths. This all assumes stock (3000-7200) or slightly higher powerband with cams/porting (4000-8200).

The obstacle in our case is making it fit with the NB's ABS pump in the OEM location with those longer runners. So we're making a new bracket for the ABS pump and shoving it over a few inches. If it fits and makes any power, I'll post pics.
Question, the runner length is measured from what point to what point?
(I think it's from top of the valve to the start of the plenum.)

Last edited by 2manyhobyz; 08-25-2013 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:19 PM   #744
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Quote:
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Question, the runner length is measured from what point to what point?
(I think it's from top of the valve to the start of the plenum.)
From where it starts being a runner to where it stops being a runner. When measuring intake and exhaust piping, the air mass will change speed anytime there is a significant change in cross sectional volume. That speed change generally causes the gaseous mixture "slinky" to generate a standing wave. So that area where the volume changes is where you measure from.

In the case of the port, the valve shuts so that's a terminus.

Measure on the centerline, not short side radius. Port is valve seat to port mouth. You have to average short side and long side. For a very high revving engine with big race specific cams (narrow power band) a 10mm either way can adversely the power. For a lower lift and shorter duration cam at loer outputs like a typical street/HPDE Miata, get it to within 15mm or so and you're good.

I can't tell you what you need for your car. That takes some math and knowledge of how intake systems work on spark ignition 4 cycl engines.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:06 PM   #745
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Thanks for sharing your time on a Sunday.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:55 PM   #746
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Quote:
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Skunk tb will work with the oem idle valve.
Depends on where your manifold ends up. On mine there was not enough clearance between the manifold and the shock tower to bolt the valve in. My RX7 idle valve works fine though it just looks funny.
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:46 PM   #747
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I think thsi would be cool, and give a little soemthing to play with on the dyno:
Acura Integra GSR (B18C1) Intake manifold





It has secondary runners that are opened by a set of butterfly valves.
I think this manifold is the reason why so many ppl think that VICS works this way.
Did anyone ever give this a shot? Could the longer runners work better for non-boost and low RPM range torque like VICS?
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:53 PM   #748
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Ill sell you one so you can be the first
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:58 PM   #749
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I might be interested, how much shipped to NC?
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:16 PM   #750
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It looks like you can get one on eBay for $60. It doesn't seem worth it to ship now.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:18 PM   #751
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I know it's a cramped fit, but couldn't you just alter the angle of the runners up a little to avoid hitting the shock tower and tbody placement issues? How does the runner transition change, via solenoid like with VICS?
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:19 PM   #752
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Honda guys hate this manifold and practically give them away. I'm sure you can find one cheap on a local cragslist or something.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:12 PM   #753
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How do you measure the plenum volume on a dual stack manifold? Can you measure the volume and the runner length(s)? I'm searching but can't find any real data for that, anyone know how close it sits to the frame rail? I'm really considering giving this a shot; I can just swap over my VICS solenoid and tune away assuming I can make it fit...
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:03 PM   #754
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So we ended up at 9.5" runner length, about 1.5" short from optimal of 11". Up against the ABS and we still had to move the pump almost 2". I realize now the only way to get the required length is to wrap it around like OEM. To get it right we'll have to build it from scratch.

Being a bit short, we'll lose a bit of power everywhere from optimal length. I'm hoping that it will still flow more peak than a square top. We'll know tomorrow once we get it on a dyno.

Thats a 66mm cast Alpha series Skunk2 TB from a base Integra.

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Old 08-30-2013, 09:19 AM   #755
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curious where you came up with the 11" number? (is that what stock is?) But really excited to see your results.

What's the length of the BEGI cast IM runners? I feel like they are around 9" and people are seeing tons of top-end gains with them. on some turbo setups they are even seeing low-end gains and it is improving the turbo response below 4K.

I've been urging people that have considered the Eledelbrock manifolds to go with the performerx over the victorx for the longer runners.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:27 AM   #756
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Quote:
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Eledelbrock
Elderbrock.
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:03 PM   #757
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Emilio, did you guys cut/weld a new flange on or did you weld/re-drill the existing flange? Can't wait to see the numbers.

Edit; And it looks like from the shape of the IM, you might be able to incorporate an IAC for those that want to street the car.

Last edited by Der_Idiot; 08-30-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:00 PM   #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Idiot View Post
How do you measure the plenum volume on a dual stack manifold? Can you measure the volume and the runner length(s)? I'm searching but can't find any real data for that, anyone know how close it sits to the frame rail? I'm really considering giving this a shot; I can just swap over my VICS solenoid and tune away assuming I can make it fit...
You can use use rice or popcorn to measure the volume. Just make sure its dry inside so the stuff pours right out.

Last edited by 2manyhobyz; 08-30-2013 at 02:01 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:56 PM   #759
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wouldn't water be easier?
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:59 PM   #760
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And slightly more accurate since it will not have the voids between what ever media is used.....
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