K series Miata swap
03-19-2013, 02:14 PM
#81
FTB: a lone K hating crusader in a K loving world.
Drove the TSX today just for kicks. Seriously: the torque curve this thing produces would actually be a ton of fun in a miata.
I popped the hood yesterday and was sizing everything up. IMHO this isn't going to be a very easy swap. At least it looked like a PITA to me with all the bells and whistles bolted to it. (though I bet you guys will delete nearly all the accessories)
Drove the TSX today just for kicks. Seriously: the torque curve this thing produces would actually be a ton of fun in a miata.
I popped the hood yesterday and was sizing everything up. IMHO this isn't going to be a very easy swap. At least it looked like a PITA to me with all the bells and whistles bolted to it. (though I bet you guys will delete nearly all the accessories)
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TTB wouldn't allow you to realize the full potential of the swap.
03-19-2013, 04:10 PM
#85
I saw a K motor in a gutted Civic run high 11's on the motor at a Nopi event years ago. I am pretty sure the motor had a stock bottom and stock cam. At most the RSX model was just a few years old, so I doubt there was much of an aftermarket support at the time.
The class it was racing in would not allow aftermarket ECUs, but I am pretty sure you were allowed to modify the stock one. It was impressive.
Edit: Actually now that I think about it, you had to run a stock 'style' intake manifold. You may have been allowed to run an aftermarket ECU. It was a while ago.
The car did have the factory intake manifold. That I remember.
The class it was racing in would not allow aftermarket ECUs, but I am pretty sure you were allowed to modify the stock one. It was impressive.
Edit: Actually now that I think about it, you had to run a stock 'style' intake manifold. You may have been allowed to run an aftermarket ECU. It was a while ago.
The car did have the factory intake manifold. That I remember.
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03-19-2013, 04:31 PM
#86
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I saw a K motor in a gutted Civic run high 11's on the motor at a Nopi event years ago. I am pretty sure the motor had a stock bottom and stock cam. At most the RSX model was just a few years old, so I doubt there was much of an aftermarket support at the time.
The class it was racing in would not allow aftermarket ECUs, but I am pretty sure you were allowed to modify the stock one. It was impressive.
Edit: Actually now that I think about it, you had to run a stock 'style' intake manifold. You may have been allowed to run an aftermarket ECU. It was a while ago.
The car did have the factory intake manifold. That I remember.
The class it was racing in would not allow aftermarket ECUs, but I am pretty sure you were allowed to modify the stock one. It was impressive.
Edit: Actually now that I think about it, you had to run a stock 'style' intake manifold. You may have been allowed to run an aftermarket ECU. It was a while ago.
The car did have the factory intake manifold. That I remember.
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03-19-2013, 05:10 PM
#87
Not really related, but does contain K24 content.
https://www.miataturbo.net/media-53/...y-civic-68565/
Don't get me wrong, I'm a believer. Easily one of the fastest cars I've ever been in. But it sure as hell ain't cheap.
https://www.miataturbo.net/media-53/...y-civic-68565/
Don't get me wrong, I'm a believer. Easily one of the fastest cars I've ever been in. But it sure as hell ain't cheap.
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03-19-2013, 05:25 PM
#89
I just have to chime in with dumb questions (based on one specific case, restricted by alien (non US) rules)
Would it be possible to keep the plenum and move the TB to the front. This while still calling it "stockish"? 190bhp in the local spec meaning 950kg min in the class I'm thinking about would be sweet (convincing the scrutineer that the moved TB doesn't affect output is another story).
Welding is always possible... But will the TB end up in a suitable place (close to the Miata PS pump location I assume), is the plenum a simple one (just a box or full with runners and ****),...?
A sump allowing unmodified subframe/steering would help a lot. Additional $2k for a true "drop-in" would be great value.
I'd think a custom oil solution would be more appealing than a custom subframe (if the price is similar).
I write this without knowing squat if the K can clear the stock subframe at all regardless of pan.
Would it be possible to keep the plenum and move the TB to the front. This while still calling it "stockish"? 190bhp in the local spec meaning 950kg min in the class I'm thinking about would be sweet (convincing the scrutineer that the moved TB doesn't affect output is another story).
Welding is always possible... But will the TB end up in a suitable place (close to the Miata PS pump location I assume), is the plenum a simple one (just a box or full with runners and ****),...?
A sump allowing unmodified subframe/steering would help a lot. Additional $2k for a true "drop-in" would be great value.
I'd think a custom oil solution would be more appealing than a custom subframe (if the price is similar).
I write this without knowing squat if the K can clear the stock subframe at all regardless of pan.
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03-19-2013, 06:13 PM
#90
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This has nothing to do with me hating the K-series mysticism, even if this thread is heavily infected with it.
If the F20C and F22C1 didnt exist, I would think this was a pretty good idea, regardless of how complex and expensive it may be. But when there is an all around superior engine available and has the added benefit of not requiring a transmission adaptation, then Im going to call a K24 swap what it is, retarded.
If the F20C and F22C1 didnt exist, I would think this was a pretty good idea, regardless of how complex and expensive it may be. But when there is an all around superior engine available and has the added benefit of not requiring a transmission adaptation, then Im going to call a K24 swap what it is, retarded.
Last edited by Full_Tilt_Boogie; 03-21-2013 at 02:12 PM.
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03-19-2013, 06:23 PM
#91
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^^^You do know I am planning on making this a racecar, right? And that I currently have an s2000 that almost beat Crusher this year at NASA Nationals in TTC, right? (Emilio would have handed that one to me though, not going out in the last session). I've never owned a fwd car or any other Honda, and I don't consider myself a Honda guy. Please, get off the idea that the F20/F22 is a better swap than the K24. It's not. I own an F22. Its a good motor. The K24 is better. Plain and simple. Maybe not in stock form, but since when did the MT crowd think that stock motors were cool? We aren't spinning this motor to 10k. We have a lot more experience than you are giving us and we also have put a lot more thought into this swap than you seem to think.
We're going to do it even if you think its cool or not. A lot of people here seem to agree that this is better than an F20/F22. You're just wasting your time. This is happening, nothing you post is going to make us change our minds.
If you think it's such a bad idea, Id love you see you build an ST3/TT3 Miata with whatever motor you'd like and come out and race Emilio and I. I can see that likely won't happen though.
This is a purpose build racecar, not some Honda Mad Tight JDM yo project that some young punk kids are building. Hate on if if you must, but I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. I have 14 points in two years. You can tell I look a lot, but only reserve my comments for when they are fully needed.
We're going to do it even if you think its cool or not. A lot of people here seem to agree that this is better than an F20/F22. You're just wasting your time. This is happening, nothing you post is going to make us change our minds.
If you think it's such a bad idea, Id love you see you build an ST3/TT3 Miata with whatever motor you'd like and come out and race Emilio and I. I can see that likely won't happen though.
This is a purpose build racecar, not some Honda Mad Tight JDM yo project that some young punk kids are building. Hate on if if you must, but I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. I have 14 points in two years. You can tell I look a lot, but only reserve my comments for when they are fully needed.
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03-19-2013, 06:29 PM
#92
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Fair enough.
I still disagree about the F20/22 vs K24, Id rather have a better head, better oiling system, better rod ratio, and better bore/stroke than have an extra 400cc and VVT on the intake cam. But, whatever.
I still disagree about the F20/22 vs K24, Id rather have a better head, better oiling system, better rod ratio, and better bore/stroke than have an extra 400cc and VVT on the intake cam. But, whatever.
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03-19-2013, 07:22 PM
#96
i would like to know what is going to be done about the manifold, and also fuel system, i assume we can use hard tube fittings and run AN to a billet rail. But will there be a custom header made, something along the lines of AN-R,Bisimoto,Hytech ?? if i do this swap im doing kinsler itb's so im not worried about intake
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03-19-2013, 07:57 PM
#97
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i would like to know what is going to be done about the manifold, and also fuel system, i assume we can use hard tube fittings and run AN to a billet rail. But will there be a custom header made, something along the lines of AN-R,Bisimoto,Hytech ?? if i do this swap im doing kinsler itb's so im not worried about intake
Also we will be using an S2000 manifold on the initial setup. Couple other options being tossed around this should be cheap and meet our power goals for now.
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03-19-2013, 08:13 PM
#98
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This swap sounds pretty slick for the reasons the OP mentioned, mild turbo BP power with honda reliability and RPM, lighter weight than V8 (or BP & turbo) without the additional requirements of trans/driveshaft/rear diff upgrades. The same reasons the NA Mazda K series swap kit is a great idea, which should be cheaper and would be the same amount of work except you can use the original subframe if needed. But this honda option will give you the benefits & complications of 20 years of valve control advancement.
and the honda swap decisions decisions
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03-19-2013, 09:20 PM
#100
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Only douche here is you, if you're not interested in the subject don't come in the thread, if you're of the opinion the K motor is a failure then the thread title should've warded you off.
Watching this build with interest, less weight than a BP and BP turbo power is win in my book.
My only concerns are issues for RHD miatas.
Watching this build with interest, less weight than a BP and BP turbo power is win in my book.
My only concerns are issues for RHD miatas.
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