Miata LFX Swap (Singular Motorsports & Good-Win Racing)
07-18-2015, 04:23 PM
#101
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However, GM has chosen to use the 3.6L V6 in the new ATSV-R (article here for those who haven't seen it) and while the more direct production variant of that LF4.R motor is the LF3 in the new ATS-V, the LFX is also a direct relative - lacking just the forged internals and turbos. In other words, if there are weak points, I'm confident there will be solutions for them.
This circles back to my original post that there are questions that remain to be answered about this motor and swap. However everything looks promising enough for me to reject the more common swaps and take a leap down this path to find the answers to those questions.
-Ryan
Last edited by ThePass; 07-18-2015 at 04:37 PM.
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07-19-2015, 07:36 AM
#103
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Miata LFX Swap (Singular Motorsports & Good-Win Racing)
I did a track weekend at Road Atlanta in a new LFX Camaro a couple of years ago. Nothing broke. A big shout out to the major rental car companies, "Wassup!"
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07-19-2015, 10:26 PM
#105
AFAIK, no the LFX as not yet been established at the track.
However, GM has chosen to use the 3.6L V6 in the new ATSV-R (article here for those who haven't seen it) and while the more direct production variant of that LF4.R motor is the LF3 in the new ATS-V, the LFX is also a direct relative - lacking just the forged internals and turbos. In other words, if there are weak points, I'm confident there will be solutions for them.
This circles back to my original post that there are questions that remain to be answered about this motor and swap. However everything looks promising enough for me to reject the more common swaps and take a leap down this path to find the answers to those questions.
-Ryan
However, GM has chosen to use the 3.6L V6 in the new ATSV-R (article here for those who haven't seen it) and while the more direct production variant of that LF4.R motor is the LF3 in the new ATS-V, the LFX is also a direct relative - lacking just the forged internals and turbos. In other words, if there are weak points, I'm confident there will be solutions for them.
This circles back to my original post that there are questions that remain to be answered about this motor and swap. However everything looks promising enough for me to reject the more common swaps and take a leap down this path to find the answers to those questions.
-Ryan
Cadillac Next-Gen V-6 Engines Led by 3.0L Twin Turbo
There's a forged crank, sintered rods, cam chain and other robust items that would be driving a lighter weight car. There's also some pretty interesting new technology, and we just won't know how it will hold up over the long haul. Besides the true test of racing, a show of faith would be GM making it available as a crate option.
Last edited by cordycord; 07-19-2015 at 10:41 PM.
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07-20-2015, 12:08 AM
#106
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Same block architecture sounds like that would be a drop-in as long as you got all the necessary electronics worked out. That would be wild. That or the existing LF3 in the ATS-V, would just be nuts aaaand both have flappy-paddle gearboxes that *who knows* might be something that could be carried over 
For me though, I don't see myself revisiting the turbos on this new drivetrain for quite some time if at all. BTDT in terms of heat management and decreased engine life. My hopes are to find in this a naturally aspirated, runs-all-day honest 300 horsepower that I can replace for 1.5k from the junkyard when it wears out.
-Ryan
For me though, I don't see myself revisiting the turbos on this new drivetrain for quite some time if at all. BTDT in terms of heat management and decreased engine life. My hopes are to find in this a naturally aspirated, runs-all-day honest 300 horsepower that I can replace for 1.5k from the junkyard when it wears out.
-Ryan
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07-20-2015, 12:14 AM
#107
Compared to the engine it replaces, the new LFX 3.6L V-6 features:
New cylinder head design with integrated exhaust manifold
Improved intake port design and larger intake valves within the cylinder heads
Longer-duration intake camshafts
Composite intake manifold
New fuel pump and isolated fuel rail
New, optimized-flow fuel injectors
Structural front cover and cylinder block enhancements
Stronger and lighter-weight connecting rods
Camshaft cap and throttle body design enhancements
E85 ethanol capability
"The changes to the 3.6L V-6 represent greater refinements to an already well-balanced package, including the use of new, lighter-weight components and enhancements designed to improve performance, efficiency and durability." GM (I have underlined some interesting pieces of information!)
Aluminum Engine Block and Integral Oil Pan
The 3.6L V-6 VVT's engine block is cast from A319 aluminum alloy. This aluminum-intensive construction means less weight and greater efficiency than conventional cast-iron engines – and less weight translates to improved vehicle fuel economy. The sand-mold-cast block features strong cast-in iron bore liners, six-bolt main caps, and inter-bay breather vents. A cast aluminum oil pan is stiffened to improve powertrain rigidity and reduce vehicle vibration.
Rotating Assembly with Oil-Spray Cooled Pistons
The crankshaft is manufactured from forged steel, while the connecting rods are made of powdered metal that features a higher ratio of copper, which makes them stronger and enables them to be lighter. The V-6 VVT engine family was developed with pressure-actuated oil squirters in all applications. The jets reduce piston temperature, which in turn allows the engine to produce more power without reducing long-term durability.
Integrated Cylinder Heads/Exhaust Manifolds
The LFX's new cylinder head design has a revised intake port design that enhances airflow to the combustion chambers. Larger-diameter intake valves are used in the heads and work in conjunction with new, longer-duration intake camshafts to provide the engine's boost in horsepower. By using larger valves and holding them open longer, more of the air is pulled into the combustion chamber, for a more powerful combustion. The exhaust manifold is incorporated with the cylinder head, which saves weight, reduces complexity and helps promote a quicker light off of the catalytic converter, which further helps reduce emissions.
Direct Injection
Direct injection moves the point where fuel feeds into an engine closer to the point where it ignites, enabling greater combustion efficiency. It fosters a more complete burn of the fuel in the air-fuel mixture, and it operates at a lower temperature than conventional port injection. That allows the mixture to be leaner (less fuel and more air), so less fuel is required to produce the equivalent horsepower of a conventional, port injection fuel system. Direct injection also delivers reduced emissions, particularly cold-start emissions, which are cut by about 25 percent.
E85 Flex-Fuel Capability
E85 is a clean-burning, domestically produced alternative fuel composed of 85 percent ethanol alcohol and 15 percent gasoline. Ethanol is renewable and produces fewer greenhouse gas emissions in the combustion process. It can be produced from various feed stocks, including corn and wheat stalks, forestry and agricultural waste and even municipal waste. (I have seen 85 octane at the pump in Utah - it's coming...)
Dual Overhead Cams with Four Valves per Cylinder and Silent Cam Drive
Four-valves-per-cylinder with inverted-tooth chain cam drive contributes to the smoothness and high output of the LFX. The engine incorporates a timing chain with an inverted tooth design. These smaller links engage at a lower impact speed, which decreases the noise generated. In conjunction with the smaller pitch chain, the number of teeth on the sprockets are increased, which increases the meshing frequency and further reduces noise and vibration. Four valves per cylinder and a silent chain valvetrain contribute to both smoothness and high output. Four-cam phasing changes the timing of valve operation as operating conditions such as rpm and engine load vary.
Variable Valve Timing
Variable valve timing (VVT), or cam phasing, helps the LFX deliver optimal performance and efficiency, and reduced emissions. It allows linear delivery of torque, with near-peak levels over a broad rpm range, and high specific output (horsepower per liter of displacement) without sacrificing overall engine response, or driveability. The system changes valve timing on the fly, maximizing engine performance for a variety of operating conditions. At idle, for example, the cam is at the full advanced position, enabling exceptionally smooth idle quality. Under other operating demands, cam phasing adjusts to deliver optimal valve timing for performance, driveability and fuel economy. At high rpm it might retard timing to maximize airflow through the engine and increase horsepower. At low rpm it can advance timing to increase torque. Under light-load driving it can retard timing at all engine speeds to improve fuel economy.
Composite Intake Manifold and Fully Isolated Composite Camshaft Covers
The upper intake manifold for the LFX is made from composite material and provides mass savings over an aluminum manifold, with a carefully designed structure that helps ensure quiet engine operation. The surfaces on the cam covers are shaped to limit the broadcasting of undesirable noise, and the covers use isolating perimeter gaskets, as well as isolating radial lips around the tubes that accommodate the spark plugs. These effectively de-couple the covers from vibration generated in the block and engine during combustion. Acoustic dampening has also been added for additional NVH improvements.
Refinement, Durability and Maintenance
Additional changes incorporated in the LFX deliver greater refinement, quietness and durability, starting with revisions to the front cover. It was redesigned with additional support ribs on the backside and an additional fastener to improve noise and vibration characteristics. The cylinder block is modified slightly to accommodate the front cover's additional fastener. Also, the camshafts feature new saddle-type caps for improved durability. Finally, the throttle body is updated with a new, digital throttle position feature that eliminates a previous mechanical contact for more trouble-free operation.
Moar information in the document
New cylinder head design with integrated exhaust manifold
Improved intake port design and larger intake valves within the cylinder heads
Longer-duration intake camshafts
Composite intake manifold
New fuel pump and isolated fuel rail
New, optimized-flow fuel injectors
Structural front cover and cylinder block enhancements
Stronger and lighter-weight connecting rods
Camshaft cap and throttle body design enhancements
E85 ethanol capability
"The changes to the 3.6L V-6 represent greater refinements to an already well-balanced package, including the use of new, lighter-weight components and enhancements designed to improve performance, efficiency and durability." GM (I have underlined some interesting pieces of information!)
Aluminum Engine Block and Integral Oil Pan
The 3.6L V-6 VVT's engine block is cast from A319 aluminum alloy. This aluminum-intensive construction means less weight and greater efficiency than conventional cast-iron engines – and less weight translates to improved vehicle fuel economy. The sand-mold-cast block features strong cast-in iron bore liners, six-bolt main caps, and inter-bay breather vents. A cast aluminum oil pan is stiffened to improve powertrain rigidity and reduce vehicle vibration.
Rotating Assembly with Oil-Spray Cooled Pistons
The crankshaft is manufactured from forged steel, while the connecting rods are made of powdered metal that features a higher ratio of copper, which makes them stronger and enables them to be lighter. The V-6 VVT engine family was developed with pressure-actuated oil squirters in all applications. The jets reduce piston temperature, which in turn allows the engine to produce more power without reducing long-term durability.
Integrated Cylinder Heads/Exhaust Manifolds
The LFX's new cylinder head design has a revised intake port design that enhances airflow to the combustion chambers. Larger-diameter intake valves are used in the heads and work in conjunction with new, longer-duration intake camshafts to provide the engine's boost in horsepower. By using larger valves and holding them open longer, more of the air is pulled into the combustion chamber, for a more powerful combustion. The exhaust manifold is incorporated with the cylinder head, which saves weight, reduces complexity and helps promote a quicker light off of the catalytic converter, which further helps reduce emissions.
Direct Injection
Direct injection moves the point where fuel feeds into an engine closer to the point where it ignites, enabling greater combustion efficiency. It fosters a more complete burn of the fuel in the air-fuel mixture, and it operates at a lower temperature than conventional port injection. That allows the mixture to be leaner (less fuel and more air), so less fuel is required to produce the equivalent horsepower of a conventional, port injection fuel system. Direct injection also delivers reduced emissions, particularly cold-start emissions, which are cut by about 25 percent.
E85 Flex-Fuel Capability
E85 is a clean-burning, domestically produced alternative fuel composed of 85 percent ethanol alcohol and 15 percent gasoline. Ethanol is renewable and produces fewer greenhouse gas emissions in the combustion process. It can be produced from various feed stocks, including corn and wheat stalks, forestry and agricultural waste and even municipal waste. (I have seen 85 octane at the pump in Utah - it's coming...)
Dual Overhead Cams with Four Valves per Cylinder and Silent Cam Drive
Four-valves-per-cylinder with inverted-tooth chain cam drive contributes to the smoothness and high output of the LFX. The engine incorporates a timing chain with an inverted tooth design. These smaller links engage at a lower impact speed, which decreases the noise generated. In conjunction with the smaller pitch chain, the number of teeth on the sprockets are increased, which increases the meshing frequency and further reduces noise and vibration. Four valves per cylinder and a silent chain valvetrain contribute to both smoothness and high output. Four-cam phasing changes the timing of valve operation as operating conditions such as rpm and engine load vary.
Variable Valve Timing
Variable valve timing (VVT), or cam phasing, helps the LFX deliver optimal performance and efficiency, and reduced emissions. It allows linear delivery of torque, with near-peak levels over a broad rpm range, and high specific output (horsepower per liter of displacement) without sacrificing overall engine response, or driveability. The system changes valve timing on the fly, maximizing engine performance for a variety of operating conditions. At idle, for example, the cam is at the full advanced position, enabling exceptionally smooth idle quality. Under other operating demands, cam phasing adjusts to deliver optimal valve timing for performance, driveability and fuel economy. At high rpm it might retard timing to maximize airflow through the engine and increase horsepower. At low rpm it can advance timing to increase torque. Under light-load driving it can retard timing at all engine speeds to improve fuel economy.
Composite Intake Manifold and Fully Isolated Composite Camshaft Covers
The upper intake manifold for the LFX is made from composite material and provides mass savings over an aluminum manifold, with a carefully designed structure that helps ensure quiet engine operation. The surfaces on the cam covers are shaped to limit the broadcasting of undesirable noise, and the covers use isolating perimeter gaskets, as well as isolating radial lips around the tubes that accommodate the spark plugs. These effectively de-couple the covers from vibration generated in the block and engine during combustion. Acoustic dampening has also been added for additional NVH improvements.
Refinement, Durability and Maintenance
Additional changes incorporated in the LFX deliver greater refinement, quietness and durability, starting with revisions to the front cover. It was redesigned with additional support ribs on the backside and an additional fastener to improve noise and vibration characteristics. The cylinder block is modified slightly to accommodate the front cover's additional fastener. Also, the camshafts feature new saddle-type caps for improved durability. Finally, the throttle body is updated with a new, digital throttle position feature that eliminates a previous mechanical contact for more trouble-free operation.
Moar information in the document
Last edited by cordycord; 07-20-2015 at 01:44 PM.
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07-20-2015, 02:28 PM
#108
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Drove V8roadsters shop car with the LFX today. Damn that set up is fun. Pulls hard and the power never fell off. I don't think it's quite as fast as my LS swap but it is alot easier to drive. Hits triple digits surprisingly fast.
Looking for another car now to make my DD with this motor.
I don't think you're going to be disappointed
Looking for another car now to make my DD with this motor.
I don't think you're going to be disappointed
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07-20-2015, 03:33 PM
#109
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ryan,
when you change out the oil pan, please take a picture looking up through the bore of the bottom of the piston. i wanted to do that, but we got in a hurry and i didn't have my camera with me. the bottom of the piston is "patterned", kind of like checkering on a rifle stock. i think it's there to help with oil spray cooling of the piston. looks super-trick double-throwdown.
when you change out the oil pan, please take a picture looking up through the bore of the bottom of the piston. i wanted to do that, but we got in a hurry and i didn't have my camera with me. the bottom of the piston is "patterned", kind of like checkering on a rifle stock. i think it's there to help with oil spray cooling of the piston. looks super-trick double-throwdown.
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07-23-2015, 04:44 PM
#111
V8 did another "just for fun" dyno run with their LFX. Remember, tune only and cobbled-together exhaust.
They did a little fun 60/40 fuel mix with 93/E85, just because. Hot/humid Tampa Bay results were 304whp/270tq.
Stock engine with tune, running through a drivetrain that was made for a 4,000lb car. And even then, it weighs less than a stock Miata with all of the V8R goodies. Which also means about 100lbs less in the front of the car than a turbo setup, right?
Anyone that's going to Deal's Gap this weekend, I think the car that pulled these numbers will be there.
They did a little fun 60/40 fuel mix with 93/E85, just because. Hot/humid Tampa Bay results were 304whp/270tq.
Stock engine with tune, running through a drivetrain that was made for a 4,000lb car. And even then, it weighs less than a stock Miata with all of the V8R goodies. Which also means about 100lbs less in the front of the car than a turbo setup, right?
Anyone that's going to Deal's Gap this weekend, I think the car that pulled these numbers will be there.
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07-23-2015, 06:01 PM
#113
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V8 did another "just for fun" dyno run with their LFX. Remember, tune only and cobbled-together exhaust.
They did a little fun 60/40 fuel mix with 93/E85, just because. Hot/humid Tampa Bay results were 304whp/270tq.
Stock engine with tune, running through a drivetrain that was made for a 4,000lb car. And even then, it weighs less than a stock Miata with all of the V8R goodies. Which also means about 100lbs less in the front of the car than a turbo setup, right?
They did a little fun 60/40 fuel mix with 93/E85, just because. Hot/humid Tampa Bay results were 304whp/270tq.
Stock engine with tune, running through a drivetrain that was made for a 4,000lb car. And even then, it weighs less than a stock Miata with all of the V8R goodies. Which also means about 100lbs less in the front of the car than a turbo setup, right?
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07-24-2015, 07:28 PM
#116
GM is phasing in the successor to the LFX, the LGX, in the '16 Cadillac CT6. Still a 3.6, but the LGX is a clean-sheet engine. Larger bore spacing, bigger bores, new bearing package, stiffer block and bottom end, piston squirters, DI, etc. Even has cyl deactivation.
The LGX will find its way into the '16 Camaro as the base engine, too. 335 hp and 284 lb ft in the Caddy, prob a bit more in the Camaro.
I doubt it will be drop-in interchangeable with the LFX, so just a heads up. Stay on the lookout for a crashed CT6/Camaro when they hit the streets later this year...
The LGX will find its way into the '16 Camaro as the base engine, too. 335 hp and 284 lb ft in the Caddy, prob a bit more in the Camaro.
I doubt it will be drop-in interchangeable with the LFX, so just a heads up. Stay on the lookout for a crashed CT6/Camaro when they hit the streets later this year...
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