Mobius

iTrader: (2)

+1

hustler

iTrader: (6)

I don't really appreciate you calling me a "vag." I was initially surprised that you're familiar with vagina at all. Then I thought about that PM you sent me about your "Y chromosome issue" and it all made sense.




and I have that set-up on my car currently.

cjernigan

iTrader: (13)

Glad your on your toes. Where are the pictures of your piece, I'd swear I saw them at one point.

Eraser-X

Yes and No

We want a a few of versions of this one for the 1.6, one for the 1.8 and one for the 99 and later 1.8. I am fine if we have to get the Kia Sephia water neck to make it work too (does anyone have the part #? Plus what ever pipes and hoses BEGi currently has in the racer reroute to plumb this to the radiator.

The issue seems to be that with your current reroute routes everything is post thermostat so until the thermostat is open we do not get a good CLT or gauge reading of coolant temps. Also if a thermostat fails closed we get a low reading on the gauge and a warped head.

As Hustler says we also need an extra port with a plug for extra gauges and such.

I hope this makes sense.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

eraser x...look through my post. It goes over the provisions for all motors, including special provisions for swaps in 1.6 chassis cars. You can use the 1.6 or 1.8 waterneck...but BEGi should make a slimmer one. . Its wise to go with the extra ports and plug them so they can make 1-piece, and you could add stuff to it in the future. I speak from experience on a few of my points...currently looking for more ports!!! They should also use shorter studs, not bolts, so you can take out the T-stat without pulling the head off. I used "all-thread" and nylon lock-nuts with locktite like whoa.

You're spot on with the CLT sensor problem in failure...but it can't help with tuning unless the t-stat is open.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

I'll take pics tonight if I can remember and can manage to get some time with all the supermodel competition I'm judging tonight.

I forgot to take pics when I put it together.

ZX-Tex

iTrader: (15)

I found a hose today at the auto parts store that does what you have drawn for the "bigger" pink one. It is just about perfect actually, and fits right on the thermostat housing, oriented so that it points upward.

Thus I am the master Hustler. If you bow down before me, acknowledge that I have the actual "bigger" pink one, and that you lust for my "bigger" pink one, I may give you the part number.

Stephanie Turner

Yes, please. I printed all this out and gave it to Corky.
Stephanie

Saml01

iTrader: (9)

Basically. In its simplest form, and for my own understanding.

We want to 1. remove the front water neck, 2. retain the heater cores circulation through the mixing manifold and 3. send the coolant from the back of the engine to the rad.

All that would need to happen is for your spacer to be slightly modified. 1. It needs to be able to accept the thermostat from the front, and 2. provision to accept the sensor that is in the housing at the back of the head. 3. The orientation needs to be mirrored. The pipe coming out of it needs to go to the heater core, while a KIA sephia or 1.6 neck is used for the other direction.

Flow is simple. Pre thermostat(using the spacers pipe) -> Heater -> Mixing manifold. Post Thermostate(using a re-oriented neck) -> back to the radiator.

Want to make it even more streamline, tap the spacer in a way to allow it to re use the rear water neck but re-orient it to point to the cold side.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

You may have a bigger pink one, but mine is the perfect shape...just ask anyones who's been strapped into the harness and gone on the ride of their life.

We need a panel to judge our "pink ones."Maybe we should go to the "1337 speak" forum to further discuss our bung-holes and pink ones.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Let's see if we can consolidate this. This is open to comment.

We want a spacer to go on the hole on the back of the head, like the one shown in This Picture. We will cover this spacer, on the firewall side, with either a stock water neck outlet or a Kia water neck outlet. Said outlet shall feed water to the radiator upper hose, and may be pointed to either the hotside or coldside of the engine. I expect that coldside orientation will be most prevalent, at least among turbo users. The spacer shall be grooved on the firewall side to accept a stock thermostat. The thermostat shall be placed between the spacer and the water neck outlet, such that everything which follows shall be before the thermostat.

The spacer shall be drilled and tapped to accept the following:

1: An NPT-threaded barbed fitting to supply the heater core. This shall face towards the exhaust side of the engine, and be roughly horizontal.

2: A threaded hole to accept one stock CLT sensor. I assume that the thread size of the 1.6, 1.8NA and NB CLT sensors are all the same.

3: (optional) A threaded hole to accept the fan thermoswitch used on 1.6 engines. A plug shall be supplied to block this position when not in use.

4: (optional) A threaded hole (presumably 1/8 NPT) from which to draw cooling water for the turbo. A plug shall be supplied to block this position when not in use.

5: (optional) A 3/8" NPT threaded hole to accommodate a GM-style CLT sensor for use by MegaSquirt owners. This same hole could be used, with an NPT reducer, to accomodate a 1/8" NPT coolant sensor as well. A plug shall be supplied to block this position when not in use.
The placement of these fittings must be such that none of them interfere with the NA CAS (in either the 1.6 or 1.8 position) or any stock coilpack. (Frankly, I don't care as I have neither a CAS nor a coilpack...) It is probably acceptable that fitting #3 (1.6 fan thermoswitch) may interfere with the CAS when installed in the exhaust cam position (1.8), as these two applications are mutually exclusive.


As per Hustler's pink picture, it would be nice if an appropriate hose and/or tube was provided to accommodate the routing of the hose which exits at the water neck outlet and runs to the radiator.


For now, the heater core return shall be ignored, as it is a separate issue. It is not desirable to return it to the upper radiator hose, at least for street applications. In my opinion, it should be left as stock (returning to the mixing manifold), although it would be nice if an inline restrictive orifice (with perhaps a 3/8" or so passage) were provided to place in series with the feed into the heater core.


I agree that the design of the current Bell spacer could be modified to work. In fact, its circular shape makes it a better platform to work from than the JR spacer. Eliminate the large welded pipe, add the threaded holes, and lathe a groove for the thermostat.


Have I missed anything?

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Steph, another thought has occurred to me.

Can we DIYers buy your spacer with no holes drilled it in, nothing welded to it, etc? Just the raw spacer itself? What is the approximate wall thickness?

hustler

iTrader: (6)

Joe, you need to discuss angles for the CLT sensors in relation to the coil packs, and respect both 1.6, 1.8, and swap cars. Its very tight back there.

Also, my Omori water temp sensor uses BSP.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I did discuss it.


see:You can use the 3/8" NPT hole and adapt.




Or, since we're all manly men here, we could just get the raw spacer (assuming it comes pre-lathed for the thermostat) and drill it to suit our individual needs.

Stephanie Turner

Ugh... you are making my head hurt already!
Stephanie

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

+1. I think they should sell a spacer that, if possible, is 100% ready to go and tapped for every sensor possible such that it works with as many setups as possible. And then sell a bare spacer with nothing tapped for the cheap DIY'ers. I do disagree with Joe about using T's and fittings to make one work vs. it already being tapped though. I know I don't want to see how many fittings (potential failure points) my cooling system has. We need an elegant solution, not a hacked one. We've got plenty of hacked solutions full of compromises.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

I stand corrected. Reading comprehension ftw!

yeah, I had a big pile of parts...it was like a chinese puzzle.

I think Joe is right on everything.

Stephanie Turner

So we do not need to put a back on the spacer piece?

No problem.

I would assume the same also. No problem.

On the spacer housing or on the tubing portion?

What about doing a 3/8 NPT and you can use it for EITHER the gm style sensor or use a reducer fitting for the turbo coolant?

If there is space, as an option, it does not seem like a problem. Can some of these ports be on the bottom of the spacer?

We have a 1.6L and 1.8L motor here. I assume we should be able to fit all this stuff around what is on the motor right?


Going to the radiator, around the intake manifold, that is easy.

The groove is no problem. Why eliminate the welded pipe? Don't you need that to go to the upper radiator hose?

We do have a front thermostat block off plate.
Stephanie

Stephanie Turner

Sure.

3/8" to 1/2"

Stephanie

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

what do you think I have? But it would be nice to come pre-machined for a thermostat...