Tony's Troubleshooting Thread***
02-15-2008, 01:09 PM
#1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,615
Total Cats: 2
Tony's Troubleshooting Thread***
Background:
setup is installed (details in sig) and got the car started w/ MS. But it runs like crap. Scott's been helping me troubleshoot, and have a couple more things to try this weekend. However wanted to get this out there so I can get as much help as I can...
Issues:
-Car is VERY unresponsive/sluggish. Takes a while to get the revs up, and wont really go past 2500-3000 rpm...Even if WOT is applied---this is when driving...it will free rev pretty well, havent tried going to redline for obvious reasons
-Can't tell if fuel tables are crazy rich...everything points to YES, but the wb02 is reading full lean/almost full lean. I know this sometimes happens when its so rich the wb wont/cant read the fuel and shows lean..but still dont want to find out the hard way I was wrong
-Seem to have an overheating issue..it's gotten better now that I'm running just an open DP, but prob still needs to be addressed
-My BOV is not working. I have a Tial unit, not too sure of the spring (thought it was supposed to be 5 or 6psi), but basically I'm hearing comp surge and no venting...(setup to VTA).
Solutions
-On the top of the list to do is redo the easytherm, and recheck timing. We're hoping these 2 things show a big improvement on the above issues.
The purpose of this thread is to troubleshoot the problems at hand to have a successful resolution of all issues. As you can see I haven't mentioned anything about whats ruled out becuase I want to cover everything & assume nothing. I'm very new to this, and appreciate your help in getting the car running right. I've only gotten this far with the help of guys from here, and looking at you all again to help me finish this off.
My plan is to start discussing these issues/ideas for solutions/questions/etc now, so I can have a detailed list of what to try (and possibly in what order) on Sunday. At which time I'll be reporting back results of everything tried.
Basically I'll be your eyes, ears, & hands...you be my experience
Again, assume nothing. We can start from my settings/setup in Megatune, then I can attach my tables/msq/etc, make changes, whatever it takes to get it done.
I thank you all in advance!!!! That said let the discussions begin!
setup is installed (details in sig) and got the car started w/ MS. But it runs like crap. Scott's been helping me troubleshoot, and have a couple more things to try this weekend. However wanted to get this out there so I can get as much help as I can...
Issues:
-Car is VERY unresponsive/sluggish. Takes a while to get the revs up, and wont really go past 2500-3000 rpm...Even if WOT is applied---this is when driving...it will free rev pretty well, havent tried going to redline for obvious reasons
-Can't tell if fuel tables are crazy rich...everything points to YES, but the wb02 is reading full lean/almost full lean. I know this sometimes happens when its so rich the wb wont/cant read the fuel and shows lean..but still dont want to find out the hard way I was wrong
-Seem to have an overheating issue..it's gotten better now that I'm running just an open DP, but prob still needs to be addressed
-My BOV is not working. I have a Tial unit, not too sure of the spring (thought it was supposed to be 5 or 6psi), but basically I'm hearing comp surge and no venting...(setup to VTA).
Solutions
-On the top of the list to do is redo the easytherm, and recheck timing. We're hoping these 2 things show a big improvement on the above issues.
The purpose of this thread is to troubleshoot the problems at hand to have a successful resolution of all issues. As you can see I haven't mentioned anything about whats ruled out becuase I want to cover everything & assume nothing. I'm very new to this, and appreciate your help in getting the car running right. I've only gotten this far with the help of guys from here, and looking at you all again to help me finish this off.
My plan is to start discussing these issues/ideas for solutions/questions/etc now, so I can have a detailed list of what to try (and possibly in what order) on Sunday. At which time I'll be reporting back results of everything tried.
Basically I'll be your eyes, ears, & hands...you be my experience
Again, assume nothing. We can start from my settings/setup in Megatune, then I can attach my tables/msq/etc, make changes, whatever it takes to get it done.
I thank you all in advance!!!! That said let the discussions begin!
Reply
0
0
02-15-2008, 02:34 PM
#4
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,615
Total Cats: 2
Or it gets the hose again??
Lol, will post them up when I get outta work..
AIT reading looks pretty damn close, and CLT reading is off due to wrong Easytherm values...Will be reflashing w/ new Easytherm per Scott's 1st suggestion...Then I'll post results and see if there's anything else needed to be done
Lol, will post them up when I get outta work..
AIT reading looks pretty damn close, and CLT reading is off due to wrong Easytherm values...Will be reflashing w/ new Easytherm per Scott's 1st suggestion...Then I'll post results and see if there's anything else needed to be done
Reply
0
0
02-15-2008, 11:32 PM
#5
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,615
Total Cats: 2
Msq/Log/VE table---attached
Decided to get a jump start for Sunday and try couple things..
1-timing is DEAD on...I put a light on it and it showed roughly 16deg (running off the map/-10, which is what Scott said it should be). Then I put my Fixed Angle to 10deg, checked the light and its spot on at 10degrees. My CAS is rotated all the way to the driver's/exhaust side of the head...and I needed a Trigger Angle of 85* with NO Trigger Angle Addition....Dunno if it matters, but my Cranking Angle is at 12* (I've seen many at 16*?), and Cranking timing is set to Time Based...All other fields are set to 0 or "no".
--At this point I'm thinking we can rule out timing right??
2-Decided to see what VEanalyzer would do after I made the log. It really riched up the few cells I was able to get to in the log, drove again and saw better AFR's. Logged again, VEA'd again, and it showed more fuel needed again. I've attached the newest msq/fuel table/logs that were a result of this..
Results and feedback:
--"It" (new VE table) did NOT help with the max rpm/power factor...it did help w. my AFR's (although some are too rich now...but much better than Full Lean I had before). Also, the car is now bucking quite a bit, from reading this seems to be the fact that the VEA wasn't able to smooth things out because of how little time I was able to log and how off I was to begin with, so the cells are more of high/low rather than smooth transition...at least thats what I think...
--I idle right around 900's rpm, and map shows 38-42.....The VE analyzer cut my table in half as far as max kpa...I'm GUESSING its because I uses the golden rule of max kpa+headroom, the DL showed max map of 122, so it gave 140kpa for headroom?? And I guess IF this is the case, once I get it fixed and do a new log mapping 200kpa it'll give me back my 220-240kpa max value on the table??
--As you can see Max rpm's were 2k this time. I didnt go WOT, but ALMOST did (3/4 at least) towards 3/4 thru the DL. I didnt nail it, just kept my foot in it...but you can see what I mean ALOT better now...(next time I'll see if there's a way to add TPS so u can see it compared to the Rpm's).
--Boost/Vac gauge was @ 0psi...even thru idle, cruise, and throttle
--The coolant temps were prob a lil higher than the log shows (still haven't corrected easytherm), but it did not boil into the overflow tank like it used to when I had the stock exhaust on it...(luckily Scott was able to figure out the eztherm needs reflashing...boiling overflow tank and temps on log were under 200*!!--I removed exhaust and it helped ALOT, but numbers are still prob pretty off)
--My initial startup has been bad lately. Takes me a good 6+cranks to get her going. She tries to catch, but just can't quite get 4 in a row..Couple burts and dies, couple more dies, couple more and boosh 1100ish rpm for like 20seconds while AF is pegged full lean...then down to 900's and getting richer but still lean...then finally 14's while at 900rpm. There's plenty of fuel (smell easily), battery is fine, and its 75*+ here. I'm thinking its a simple setting or too much fuel, but not really sure. After that she starts 1st try if I shut her off and try again...so far up to an hour later...
--Lastly this is all with my enrichments/overruns all set to however the MS came. I messed with all of them at somepoint (enable/disable but never saved/burnt) with no results. I have gone thru some, btu there's alot I need to read and understand before I will know IF they are set correctly or not...
Attachments:
--pic1-is the latest log from tonight...its short as I cant drive the car much..it does represent the true situation with the lack of power/inability to push the car past a certain rpm
--pic2-is the latest msq...I ran VE Analyzer, and this is the "new" msq
--pic3-the lastest fuel table...It's also per the VE Analyzer
****FILE (ZIP) ATTACHED--THANKS CJ...AS AN ADDED BONUS I ADDED BOTH TPS MARKS ON THE SNAPSHOT..TPS VALUES ARE DEF WRONG AS I JUST PUT 0 & 10 as in a simple 1-10scale...THIS WAS THE HIGHEST RPM SHOT (2200)
Sorry so long, but wanted to get as many details as I can leaving NO symptom untold, and trying to provide those of you helping me with an as much information as I can!!
----Now let's discuss, I'm interested in seeing where you guys will lead me and eager to learn alot from this thread...thanks!
1-timing is DEAD on...I put a light on it and it showed roughly 16deg (running off the map/-10, which is what Scott said it should be). Then I put my Fixed Angle to 10deg, checked the light and its spot on at 10degrees. My CAS is rotated all the way to the driver's/exhaust side of the head...and I needed a Trigger Angle of 85* with NO Trigger Angle Addition....Dunno if it matters, but my Cranking Angle is at 12* (I've seen many at 16*?), and Cranking timing is set to Time Based...All other fields are set to 0 or "no".
--At this point I'm thinking we can rule out timing right??
2-Decided to see what VEanalyzer would do after I made the log. It really riched up the few cells I was able to get to in the log, drove again and saw better AFR's. Logged again, VEA'd again, and it showed more fuel needed again. I've attached the newest msq/fuel table/logs that were a result of this..
Results and feedback:
--"It" (new VE table) did NOT help with the max rpm/power factor...it did help w. my AFR's (although some are too rich now...but much better than Full Lean I had before). Also, the car is now bucking quite a bit, from reading this seems to be the fact that the VEA wasn't able to smooth things out because of how little time I was able to log and how off I was to begin with, so the cells are more of high/low rather than smooth transition...at least thats what I think...
--I idle right around 900's rpm, and map shows 38-42.....The VE analyzer cut my table in half as far as max kpa...I'm GUESSING its because I uses the golden rule of max kpa+headroom, the DL showed max map of 122, so it gave 140kpa for headroom?? And I guess IF this is the case, once I get it fixed and do a new log mapping 200kpa it'll give me back my 220-240kpa max value on the table??
--As you can see Max rpm's were 2k this time. I didnt go WOT, but ALMOST did (3/4 at least) towards 3/4 thru the DL. I didnt nail it, just kept my foot in it...but you can see what I mean ALOT better now...(next time I'll see if there's a way to add TPS so u can see it compared to the Rpm's).
--Boost/Vac gauge was @ 0psi...even thru idle, cruise, and throttle
--The coolant temps were prob a lil higher than the log shows (still haven't corrected easytherm), but it did not boil into the overflow tank like it used to when I had the stock exhaust on it...(luckily Scott was able to figure out the eztherm needs reflashing...boiling overflow tank and temps on log were under 200*!!--I removed exhaust and it helped ALOT, but numbers are still prob pretty off)
--My initial startup has been bad lately. Takes me a good 6+cranks to get her going. She tries to catch, but just can't quite get 4 in a row..Couple burts and dies, couple more dies, couple more and boosh 1100ish rpm for like 20seconds while AF is pegged full lean...then down to 900's and getting richer but still lean...then finally 14's while at 900rpm. There's plenty of fuel (smell easily), battery is fine, and its 75*+ here. I'm thinking its a simple setting or too much fuel, but not really sure. After that she starts 1st try if I shut her off and try again...so far up to an hour later...
--Lastly this is all with my enrichments/overruns all set to however the MS came. I messed with all of them at somepoint (enable/disable but never saved/burnt) with no results. I have gone thru some, btu there's alot I need to read and understand before I will know IF they are set correctly or not...
Attachments:
--pic1-is the latest log from tonight...its short as I cant drive the car much..it does represent the true situation with the lack of power/inability to push the car past a certain rpm
--pic2-is the latest msq...I ran VE Analyzer, and this is the "new" msq
--pic3-the lastest fuel table...It's also per the VE Analyzer
****FILE (ZIP) ATTACHED--THANKS CJ...AS AN ADDED BONUS I ADDED BOTH TPS MARKS ON THE SNAPSHOT..TPS VALUES ARE DEF WRONG AS I JUST PUT 0 & 10 as in a simple 1-10scale...THIS WAS THE HIGHEST RPM SHOT (2200)
Sorry so long, but wanted to get as many details as I can leaving NO symptom untold, and trying to provide those of you helping me with an as much information as I can!!
----Now let's discuss, I'm interested in seeing where you guys will lead me and eager to learn alot from this thread...thanks!
Last edited by TonyV; 02-16-2008 at 12:05 AM.
Reply
0
0
02-16-2008, 05:39 PM
#10
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,615
Total Cats: 2
100+ views and no suggests...hmm, either I'm a dumbass and everyone wants to se ho wlong it takes for me to realize, or perhaps even the vets are stumped???
bump for some feedback...
bump for some feedback...
Reply
0
0
02-17-2008, 12:35 AM
#13
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,615
Total Cats: 2
cj-thanks, I appreciate your input and look forward to what you discover..
jdm-told you! And yea sux to be us huh? What bov are you using?? I'm curious...as u read I have a Tial...which to my knowledge is not adjustable, at first I thought it was because of the lack of power, however most say their BOV works in idle so...Guess I'm gonna try just taking it off and putting it back on again as its the only think I can think of...Unless anyone else can think if another thing to try...If that doesnt work its onto researching springs & seeing what I have VS. what I should have...
To everyone else, I'll be working on the car tomm pretty much all day....I'll be on the forum pretty much the whole time discussing, reporting results, etc... Hope you guys come up with something in the next 24 hrs! lol
jdm-told you! And yea sux to be us huh? What bov are you using?? I'm curious...as u read I have a Tial...which to my knowledge is not adjustable, at first I thought it was because of the lack of power, however most say their BOV works in idle so...Guess I'm gonna try just taking it off and putting it back on again as its the only think I can think of...Unless anyone else can think if another thing to try...If that doesnt work its onto researching springs & seeing what I have VS. what I should have...
To everyone else, I'll be working on the car tomm pretty much all day....I'll be on the forum pretty much the whole time discussing, reporting results, etc... Hope you guys come up with something in the next 24 hrs! lol
Reply
0
0
02-17-2008, 02:46 AM
#14
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,615
Total Cats: 2
**BOV update
Cj, this one's for u as I researched and saw you run the Tial w/ 11psi spring...and u helped a couple peole with theirs...
As you know its not doing anything...I opened it up and found I have what looks like the 11psi spring (gray/unpainted)...
I am NOT using the little nipple by the TB that most do. I am using the source from the back of the intake mani, just under the runners..I assume its the same exact size as the banjo fitting on the tial (or VERY close) because the line fits on both barbs the same...
I guess I should just deal with the comp surge until my car is boosting properly before I decide whether or not to drop to the 9psi spring...I say this because I read that ur 11psi spring was not opening under 4-5psi boost, but haven't seen any info on how the 9psi works for us...its been recommended by some, but havent found any posts on results.....And the fact that I'm currently producing 0-3psi of boost so it aint gonna open regardless!
My turbo is kinda useless above what, 16-18psi (2560)...so I wont be seeing as much boost as you prob are...I'll prob end up switching to the 9psi spring once the "main" issues are resolved...but would appreciate ur input on this since ur running the same bov...(DAMN that spring is stiff, couldnt budge it by hand!...)
--Please review and see if you have any suggests...Otherise I'd say with this "problem" the solution is to get a 9psi spring, (once the car is actually making boost) or perhaps even stick with the 11psi spring, but looks like both answers just require some boost! So I think this goes to the backburner for now?
Cj, this one's for u as I researched and saw you run the Tial w/ 11psi spring...and u helped a couple peole with theirs...
As you know its not doing anything...I opened it up and found I have what looks like the 11psi spring (gray/unpainted)...
I am NOT using the little nipple by the TB that most do. I am using the source from the back of the intake mani, just under the runners..I assume its the same exact size as the banjo fitting on the tial (or VERY close) because the line fits on both barbs the same...
I guess I should just deal with the comp surge until my car is boosting properly before I decide whether or not to drop to the 9psi spring...I say this because I read that ur 11psi spring was not opening under 4-5psi boost, but haven't seen any info on how the 9psi works for us...its been recommended by some, but havent found any posts on results.....And the fact that I'm currently producing 0-3psi of boost so it aint gonna open regardless!
My turbo is kinda useless above what, 16-18psi (2560)...so I wont be seeing as much boost as you prob are...I'll prob end up switching to the 9psi spring once the "main" issues are resolved...but would appreciate ur input on this since ur running the same bov...(DAMN that spring is stiff, couldnt budge it by hand!...)
--Please review and see if you have any suggests...Otherise I'd say with this "problem" the solution is to get a 9psi spring, (once the car is actually making boost) or perhaps even stick with the 11psi spring, but looks like both answers just require some boost! So I think this goes to the backburner for now?
Reply
0
0
02-17-2008, 08:47 AM
#15
jdm-told you! And yea sux to be us huh? What bov are you using?? I'm curious...as u read I have a Tial...which to my knowledge is not adjustable, at first I thought it was because of the lack of power, however most say their BOV works in idle so...Guess I'm gonna try just taking it off and putting it back on again as its the only think I can think of...Unless anyone else can think if another thing to try...If that doesnt work its onto researching springs & seeing what I have VS. what I should have...
Reply
0
0
02-17-2008, 03:16 PM
#16
I have the 11 psi spring. I'm going to swap in a 9 psi spring. Then if it doesn't hold boost i'll shim it to make it stiffer. The 11 psi spring blows off above 4-5 psi just fine. Anything below that and you will deal with surge. I even drilled an tapped my manifold for a large hose barb fitting. Easiest fix, trade your spring out or run more boost.
Reply
0
0
02-17-2008, 03:42 PM
#17
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,615
Total Cats: 2
Hear ya loud & clear on the BOV. I'm gonna just put it back together, and start looking for a 9psi spring...
As I had said I'm in my garage right now working on the car...
I am in the proces of flashing easythern/files now...just put in the jumper and put it back together...yes the coil pack is unplugged (2 connectors on back of coils, and just in case I disconnected another one which is in the same harness as the cas & stock o2 sensor...I THINK the larger one sends signal to the 2 connectors on back of coils, but i just did all 3 for the hell of it...
Any input is appreciated!!!
As I had said I'm in my garage right now working on the car...
I am in the proces of flashing easythern/files now...just put in the jumper and put it back together...yes the coil pack is unplugged (2 connectors on back of coils, and just in case I disconnected another one which is in the same harness as the cas & stock o2 sensor...I THINK the larger one sends signal to the 2 connectors on back of coils, but i just did all 3 for the hell of it...
Any input is appreciated!!!
Reply
0
0
02-17-2008, 04:02 PM
#19
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,615
Total Cats: 2
Guys ran into a hiccup that I cant figure out, and cant get a hold of scott...cj hopefully u can help!
I installed easytherm, installed the boot jumper, plugged it all back together...
Then his instruction say change port to ur port (put it as the same port the ms reads into), change code to custom (done).
Then it says click download, use the x_mod.s19 file in the zipped folder...
This is where I'm stuck..it opens a window for where to save it, but I dunno what to do from there?? Do I create a zip folder with that title?? Or am I supposed to have one already??
The rest looks simple..make sure it writes 1750lines of code, remove jumper copy 3 x.inc files to mtcfg folder, reinstall coils, load msq, fire up...
Can anyone shed a light on this???
I installed easytherm, installed the boot jumper, plugged it all back together...
Then his instruction say change port to ur port (put it as the same port the ms reads into), change code to custom (done).
Then it says click download, use the x_mod.s19 file in the zipped folder...
This is where I'm stuck..it opens a window for where to save it, but I dunno what to do from there?? Do I create a zip folder with that title?? Or am I supposed to have one already??
The rest looks simple..make sure it writes 1750lines of code, remove jumper copy 3 x.inc files to mtcfg folder, reinstall coils, load msq, fire up...
Can anyone shed a light on this???
Reply
0
0
02-17-2008, 04:11 PM
#20
The zipped folder must refer to something he sent you. Select the .s19 file included in the folder. Easytherm will modify that file and spit out a _mod.s19 file to the same location as the original file. Then it should copy the .inc files to the correct mtcfg folder. If not, drag them from the easytherm folder and put them in the mtCfg folder inside your cars project folder.
Reply
0
0
