Yet another video card thread
11-13-2012, 12:01 PM
#161
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So, time for a sober post:
On a whim, I went to TigerDirect this morning to see what they offer in the way of massively overpriced graphics cards.
A disclaimer: yes, I totally understand that some of these cars are not intended for gaming, but rather aimed at high-end workstation users who are designing prosthetic cat ********* in solidworks and so forth.
Now, here's the mack daddy: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 Fermi Graphics Card - 6GB, GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0 (x16), Dual-Link DVI, Dual DisplayPort, Stereo, DirectX 11 at TigerDirect.com
Four Thousand Dollars.
Wow.
I make two predictions:
1- At least someone has purchased this card for gaming.
2- THIS CARD DOES NOT ******* OVERHEAT AND CRASH ALL THE TIME BECAUSE THE MANUFACTURER CRIPPLED THE COOLING SYSTEM.
On a whim, I went to TigerDirect this morning to see what they offer in the way of massively overpriced graphics cards.
A disclaimer: yes, I totally understand that some of these cars are not intended for gaming, but rather aimed at high-end workstation users who are designing prosthetic cat ********* in solidworks and so forth.
Now, here's the mack daddy: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 Fermi Graphics Card - 6GB, GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0 (x16), Dual-Link DVI, Dual DisplayPort, Stereo, DirectX 11 at TigerDirect.com
Four Thousand Dollars.
Wow.
I make two predictions:
1- At least someone has purchased this card for gaming.
2- THIS CARD DOES NOT ******* OVERHEAT AND CRASH ALL THE TIME BECAUSE THE MANUFACTURER CRIPPLED THE COOLING SYSTEM.
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11-17-2012, 11:04 PM
#162
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Turns out that the GTX280 is just a piece of **** after all. Even with the fan locked at 100% and the core temp no nigher than 65°, it's still crashing every now and then. Not like I can complain about a free video card, though.
So it's gone.
Went out and bought the MSI Radeon 7770 Ghz "OC Edition." Hardly the most powerful card on the market today, but it's more than adequate. But more to the point, 20nm process and an extremely low TDP of 80 watts means that it runs fairly cool. The twin fans are a tad noisy when running at >50%, but at least the factory cooling profile lets them do their job. I'm seeing no more than about 47° while maintaining 100+ FPS at 1920 x 1200 with all settings maxed.
If anybody wants a GTX280, the Video Card Fairy has one available. Just pay shipping and send me some beer that I can't buy locally.
So it's gone.
Went out and bought the MSI Radeon 7770 Ghz "OC Edition." Hardly the most powerful card on the market today, but it's more than adequate. But more to the point, 20nm process and an extremely low TDP of 80 watts means that it runs fairly cool. The twin fans are a tad noisy when running at >50%, but at least the factory cooling profile lets them do their job. I'm seeing no more than about 47° while maintaining 100+ FPS at 1920 x 1200 with all settings maxed.
If anybody wants a GTX280, the Video Card Fairy has one available. Just pay shipping and send me some beer that I can't buy locally.
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11-17-2012, 11:28 PM
#163
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Why do I need to go **** myself? Because I correctly predicted your gpu was faulty and needed more voltage? It was probably abused in it's previous lives (excess voltage and heat)
7770 is an excellent choice. If you're getting fps over 100 I suggest capping FPS to 60 in the gpu control panel, or using VSYNC. It'll help prevent screen tearing, lower gpu demand and heat output.
7770 is an excellent choice. If you're getting fps over 100 I suggest capping FPS to 60 in the gpu control panel, or using VSYNC. It'll help prevent screen tearing, lower gpu demand and heat output.
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11-18-2012, 12:02 PM
#164
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Good call on Vsync- I'd forgotten about that. FPS is now rock-solid at 60, with an obvious reduction in processor workload and heat.
This is a phenomenon which puzzles me. I understand the potential for stuttering when Vsync is forced in an environment in which FPS cannot keep up with the display's native refresh rate. But it seems like it would be a trivial matter to have the display driver default to having Vsync on, and then dynamically disable it if the GPU is unable to keep up with the display.
Put another way, what good is it bragging about 200 FPS as opposed to 100 FPS, if 60 FPS (or 75, or whatever the refresh rate is) is the most which can physically be displayed? A lot of what I have read from googling the subject makes reference to the fact that "CRT monitors have finite refresh rates", while apparently ignoring the fact that flat-panel monitors share the same characteristic, albeit as a result of the electrical interface and display protocol, rather than the physical limitation of an electron beam being pushed around by steering coils.
This is a phenomenon which puzzles me. I understand the potential for stuttering when Vsync is forced in an environment in which FPS cannot keep up with the display's native refresh rate. But it seems like it would be a trivial matter to have the display driver default to having Vsync on, and then dynamically disable it if the GPU is unable to keep up with the display.
Put another way, what good is it bragging about 200 FPS as opposed to 100 FPS, if 60 FPS (or 75, or whatever the refresh rate is) is the most which can physically be displayed? A lot of what I have read from googling the subject makes reference to the fact that "CRT monitors have finite refresh rates", while apparently ignoring the fact that flat-panel monitors share the same characteristic, albeit as a result of the electrical interface and display protocol, rather than the physical limitation of an electron beam being pushed around by steering coils.
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11-18-2012, 12:26 PM
#165
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It says, in the email subscription update for this thread:
Anyways, the only reason to go over 60fps is if your monitors supports over 60hz refresh rate. There are 80, 120, 160, and 240hz monitors out there. "3D" monitors are 120hz.
The reason screen tearing occurs, is because the gpu is processing frames at a higher rate than the screen can display them, so if you're getting 65 fps on a 60hz screen, it may start to tear because its trying to show more than it can.
Joe Perez has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Yet another video card thread - in the Gaming forum of Miata Turbo Forum - It's the Cat's Meow.
This thread is located at:
Yet another video card thread - Page 9 - Miata Turbo Forum - It's the Cat's Meow
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Turns out that the GTX280 is just a piece of **** after all. Even with the fan locked at 100% and the core temp no nigher than 65°, it's still crashing every now and then. Not like I can complain about a free video card, though.
So it's gone.
Went out and bought the MSI Radeon 7770 Ghz "OC Edition." Hardly the most powerful card on the market today, but it's more than adequate. But more to the point, 20nm process and an extremely low TDP of 80 watts means that it runs fairly cool. The twin fans are a tad noisy when running at >50%, but at least the factory cooling profile lets them do their job. I'm seeing no more than about 47° while maintaining 100+ FPS at 1920 x 1200 with all settings maxed.
Image: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1353211455
If anybody wants a GTX280, the Video Card Fairy has one available. Just pay shipping and send me some beer that I can't buy locally.
Edit: Also, G3RG, go **** yourself.
This thread is located at:
Yet another video card thread - Page 9 - Miata Turbo Forum - It's the Cat's Meow
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Turns out that the GTX280 is just a piece of **** after all. Even with the fan locked at 100% and the core temp no nigher than 65°, it's still crashing every now and then. Not like I can complain about a free video card, though.
So it's gone.
Went out and bought the MSI Radeon 7770 Ghz "OC Edition." Hardly the most powerful card on the market today, but it's more than adequate. But more to the point, 20nm process and an extremely low TDP of 80 watts means that it runs fairly cool. The twin fans are a tad noisy when running at >50%, but at least the factory cooling profile lets them do their job. I'm seeing no more than about 47° while maintaining 100+ FPS at 1920 x 1200 with all settings maxed.
Image: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1353211455
If anybody wants a GTX280, the Video Card Fairy has one available. Just pay shipping and send me some beer that I can't buy locally.
Edit: Also, G3RG, go **** yourself.
Anyways, the only reason to go over 60fps is if your monitors supports over 60hz refresh rate. There are 80, 120, 160, and 240hz monitors out there. "3D" monitors are 120hz.
The reason screen tearing occurs, is because the gpu is processing frames at a higher rate than the screen can display them, so if you're getting 65 fps on a 60hz screen, it may start to tear because its trying to show more than it can.
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11-18-2012, 01:18 PM
#166
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That's all fine and well, and I totally get it. Each monitor has a certain finite refresh rate, and the GPU knows exactly what this is. So it knows what the "target" FPS is at all times, in terms of the physical display. And for the VAST MAJORITY of present-day LCD monitors out there, the refresh rate is 60Hz.
The GPU also knows what the "actual" FPS is (in terms of what the rendering engine is churning out).
So, why not just put a little piece of code into the card which says:
This isn't just about screen tearing vs. stuttering. By optimizing the speed of the GPU to match the target framerate, we also reduce heat generation. This means we can turns the fans slower, which goes all the way back to EO2K's cleverly written Marketing Dept dialogue.
One thing I found interesting was the upper-right corner of the box that the 7770 came in. You know, the area where marketing touts things like DirectX 11 along with code-words that nobody understands like Eyefinity?
This one says "All Solid Capacitors"
Which is marketing for "We realized after the fact that because we crippled the cooling system on the old cards, we had essentially doomed the electrolytic capacitors on them to fail prematurely, not that any of you know what an electrolytic capacitor actually is or anything. So we've changed to a different design which will hopefully push the failure mode off onto some other part that we won't learn about for another 3 or 4 years."
Actually, that's not totally fair. Like I said, the default cooling profile on this card seems to actually make sense. Time will tell...
Anyways, the only reason to go over 60fps is if your monitors supports over 60hz refresh rate. There are 80, 120, 160, and 240hz monitors out there. "3D" monitors are 120hz.
The reason screen tearing occurs, is because the gpu is processing frames at a higher rate than the screen can display them, so if you're getting 65 fps on a 60hz screen, it may start to tear because its trying to show more than it can.
The reason screen tearing occurs, is because the gpu is processing frames at a higher rate than the screen can display them, so if you're getting 65 fps on a 60hz screen, it may start to tear because its trying to show more than it can.
The GPU also knows what the "actual" FPS is (in terms of what the rendering engine is churning out).
So, why not just put a little piece of code into the card which says:
Code:
IF FPS < Refresh
THEN VSYNC OFF
ELSE VSYNC ON
Engineer: <uses logic, it's super-sound> Hey, if we default the card to always use VSYNC except in cases where the GPU is struggling to keep up, we can run the fans slower so it'll make less noise!
Marketing: <uses entrapment> What negative effects will this have on performance?
Engineer: <uses truth> None at all! In fact, not only will the card run cooler and quieter, but screen tearing will be eliminated!
Marketing: <uses LSD, it's super-trippy> But won't the FPS always be displayed on-screen as 60, instead of 150 or 200?
Engineer: <uses truth, it's ineffective> Well, of course. The true framerate can never be higher than the refresh rate.
Marketing: <uses bong, ****'s getting weird now> So, you're trying to deliberately cripple our product's performance in the synthetic benchmark tests?
Engineer: <uses gun> **** ALL THIS ****! *bang bang bang bang*
Marketing: <uses entrapment> What negative effects will this have on performance?
Engineer: <uses truth> None at all! In fact, not only will the card run cooler and quieter, but screen tearing will be eliminated!
Marketing: <uses LSD, it's super-trippy> But won't the FPS always be displayed on-screen as 60, instead of 150 or 200?
Engineer: <uses truth, it's ineffective> Well, of course. The true framerate can never be higher than the refresh rate.
Marketing: <uses bong, ****'s getting weird now> So, you're trying to deliberately cripple our product's performance in the synthetic benchmark tests?
Engineer: <uses gun> **** ALL THIS ****! *bang bang bang bang*
One thing I found interesting was the upper-right corner of the box that the 7770 came in. You know, the area where marketing touts things like DirectX 11 along with code-words that nobody understands like Eyefinity?
This one says "All Solid Capacitors"
Which is marketing for "We realized after the fact that because we crippled the cooling system on the old cards, we had essentially doomed the electrolytic capacitors on them to fail prematurely, not that any of you know what an electrolytic capacitor actually is or anything. So we've changed to a different design which will hopefully push the failure mode off onto some other part that we won't learn about for another 3 or 4 years."
Actually, that's not totally fair. Like I said, the default cooling profile on this card seems to actually make sense. Time will tell...
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