OGRacing

iTrader: (1)

he drives flat out.

OGRacing

iTrader: (1)

this is on a 2010ish camaro. so it's super heavy 3,700lbs ish. i'm unaware of what abs system they use but the factory one is notorious for killing all rear line pressure. so it's up the the fronts to do all the work.

NiklasFalk

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It's a Howe chassis and their minweight is 2680lbs. Sealed LS3 engines putting out about 450 bhp. No ABS at all I assume.

V8ThunderCars
DTC-net
https://www.howeracing.com/Adobe/HoweTA20811.pdf

A porky LS3 miata?

thumpetto007

iTrader: (15)

So I just put 1521 pads and new centric rotors on my 2001 miata LS. It has RE71R tires.

I bedded them, I think properly, all four rotors have a nice blue look to them.

I'm not sure what pads were on the car before, but the car stopped WAY better before.

Now, when I step on the brakes, it just feels like fade, regardless of cold stop, or hot stop. The car barely stops now, it's actually scary.

Before, the car would nose dive pretty hard, now, the nose doesn't even move.

Is this because of the low cf? I don't care about brake dust, as long as the pad doesn't squeak constantly, I'm good.

Should I change to xp12? or some other brand? Thanks so much!

ThePass

iTrader: (3)

Low torque grandma pad. Whatever you had in there before had a lot more torque.

No on the XP12, you're street driving - don't want a pad that needs a few hundred degrees before it wakes up. AX6 would be the better move, more torque across the range and designed specifically to work well from cold on up.

There's obviously plenty of other pads from other manufacturers that could also work well, but the AX6 will likely work on the same transfer layer you've already created on those rotors.

thumpetto007

iTrader: (15)

The AX6 only has .03 mu more than my current pads (.47 mu) wouldn't the XP8 be much better at .56 mu? XP8 only needs an extra 50 F* or at least that's what the chart says.

Would it still work with the transfer layer on my rotors?

I had xp12 on my 2400lb subaru, and it had immediate, aggressive bite even below freezing. That's the only reason I asked about the xp12.

Thanks again for your response

P.S. the previous pads had a dark blue backing plate, if that helps identify them. I'd like a higher braking force than they gave me.

ThePass

iTrader: (3)

Backing plate color helps hardly at all for identification, but if there are numbers stamped or etched into the plate that can sometimes point the right direction (but not always).

I haven't used XP12, but XP10s were always sketchy on that first stop after cruising on the freeway.

The published temp/friction data for Carbotech is a bit misleading because it only lists Peak Friction and Operating Temperature Range. I've always wished they would provide a full friction:temperature graph which is much more transparent. The 1521 and AX6 have a 0.3 mu difference at peak but that doesn't tell you what temperature those peaks are at, and tells you nothing of their characteristics below that peak point. I would expect that the AX6 has a quicker initial spike in torque than the 1521, as the 1521 is specifically designed to be very smooth and unalarming for street cars, whereas the AX6 is designed to have more bite right off the bat for autocross.

thumpetto007

iTrader: (15)

Ah, ok that makes sense. So you still recommend the AX6 over the XP8? Braking super hard is my favorite part of driving.

ThePass

iTrader: (3)

I would call Emilio at 949Racing and ask him. He's the expert on Carbotech pads.

I've used some of their compounds but not all, and am basing some of my input off of my general knowledge of pad tech and that brand, but not entirely off direct experience with each pad you're asking about.

thumpetto007

iTrader: (15)

Ok, I appreciate your help

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Dark blue is XP12 in a Carbotech. The 1521's have enough bite to lock Hoosiers below about 800°, fading quickly abovethat with an MOT of 1050°. Favored by autocrossers for their modulation. XP12's only need about 150° to generate big torque but can still easily lock Hoosiers stone cold. They're good to 1800°. Most of my HPDE customers just run 10/8 or 12/10 on the street and put up with the dust and squeaks. The AX6, as Ryan surmised, does have greater bite than the XP or 1521 at low temps but rolls off above 1200°. Perfect for autocross but even dustier than XP's. I generally don't recommend AX6 unless it's a trailered or pure dedicated autocross car. My street cars get 1521's with the exception of the C6Z which I daily on 12/10 and just clean my wheels a lot.

ThePass

iTrader: (3)

I should amend my previous comment to this:

thumpetto007

iTrader: (15)

Hm, I highly doubt the previous owner (who did zero maintenance and had mismatched tires) put xp12 pads on the car, plus they made zero noise, and only dusted a bit...

I'll try XP8 all the way around, or is the 10/8 just better for balance?

I'm avoiding the xp10 because they squeaked constantly on my subaru rears.

NeedDirection

Street pad setup. 225/45r15 nt01s is what I use. Car is dd/weekend use. I have dynapros in front (7812) and power lites in the rear (7912). I am having a difficult time find pads that are available in both these pad sizes. Currently running bp10 pads and they are no where near enough brake for these tires.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

BP-10's are designed for show and shine street rods. We can buy them from Wilwood for like $22.

Carbotech Wilwood DP6
Carbotech Wilwood PL4

thumpetto007

iTrader: (15)

I just read a post in mazdaracers.com by SaulSpeedwell...

"My personal #1 brake bedding rule: Overusing the brakes before they are "bedded" is bad. Overusing them more isn't helpful, although some compounds (high rotor wear compounds) don't seem to care at all. If you have scorching and bluing on your rotors after your "bedding" session, you have overused them."

I read early in this thread that a bluing on the rotors means a PROPER bed has occured. there was even a picture of the rotor showing this.

I bed my rotors and pads last night, and have a blue hue on the rotors, DID I MESS UP MY NEW ROTORS AND PADS?

Thank you.
Marcello

emilio700

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thumpetto007

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^ yeah, that looks blue to me.

My rotors are a little darker blue than that picture, I'll upload a pic tomorrow.

Eipgam

It is not colour that you are looking for rather a transfer of pad material to the rotor. The blue you see in the photo is me because I had a blue race suit on when taking the photos.

These a photos from a recent track day Front left. Similar to Front right
DSCN2637 by Eipeip, on Flickr

Rears were overheating due to drag/residual pressure being retained in the rear brake circuit causing them(the rotors) to be heated in excess of 630c. This is outside the recommended temperature for Winmax W3's. The disc is now also polished and no real pad material left deposited onto the disc (due to the heat).
DSCN2638 by Eipeip, on Flick

The rear brake issue has now been fixed and they are now locking up before the fronts. So I'm increasing the front spring rates (to slow down weight transfer) as well as swapping to the Winmax 6.5's to give some more bite to the front. If this does not work it will be a manual bias valve.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

No. Drive your car and have a beer. In that order. Your rotors are fine.