Compression/Leakdown numbers...Need Advice
#1
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Compression/Leakdown numbers...Need Advice
I'm doing some maintenance stuff before the turbo install and I got these numbers for Dry/Wet Compression & Leakdown:
CYL.--DRY/WET---LD
1-----176/200----28%
2-----174/195----35%
3-----154/177----50%
4-----180/195----30%
Leakdown numbers look really bad, but I'm using a shitty Harbor Freight tester that is calibrated at about 15psi. The point is, I see this test as relative and I'm not too worried about # 1, 2 & 4.
I'm having a hard time listening for the leakage since the pressure is so low.
My gut feeling is that the #3 rings are fucked, but if they were wouldn't i see a different pressure variation from dry to wet? All of the cylinders increased 20psi+- which makes me believe the rings are all worn about the same.
I'm hoping it's something in the head because I'm willing to pull it and get a valve job since I wanted to do the timing belt anyway.
Opinions?
Background info:
'95M
135,000 miles, about time for a timing belt.
Runs fine, power seems pretty good
Idles perfectly at 900rpm
Smokes a little if I wind it up really hard; drips a little, probably from the rear main. Oil usage is otherwise not noticeable
CYL.--DRY/WET---LD
1-----176/200----28%
2-----174/195----35%
3-----154/177----50%
4-----180/195----30%
Leakdown numbers look really bad, but I'm using a shitty Harbor Freight tester that is calibrated at about 15psi. The point is, I see this test as relative and I'm not too worried about # 1, 2 & 4.
I'm having a hard time listening for the leakage since the pressure is so low.
My gut feeling is that the #3 rings are fucked, but if they were wouldn't i see a different pressure variation from dry to wet? All of the cylinders increased 20psi+- which makes me believe the rings are all worn about the same.
I'm hoping it's something in the head because I'm willing to pull it and get a valve job since I wanted to do the timing belt anyway.
Opinions?
Background info:
'95M
135,000 miles, about time for a timing belt.
Runs fine, power seems pretty good
Idles perfectly at 900rpm
Smokes a little if I wind it up really hard; drips a little, probably from the rear main. Oil usage is otherwise not noticeable
#5
Borrow, rent, buy, or steal a better gauge and run the numbers again. You need accurate data, plus doing it right you'll be able to pinpoint where all the leaks are. No sense in us going through two pages on here making random guesses until you get fed up and then buy a better gauge anyway.
#6
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Borrow, rent, buy, or steal a better gauge and run the numbers again. You need accurate data, plus doing it right you'll be able to pinpoint where all the leaks are. No sense in us going through two pages on here making random guesses until you get fed up and then buy a better gauge anyway.
Anyways, I plan on running the compressor directly into the cylinder w/o the gauge and see if I can hear anything.
#7
I agree you probably want some better equipment... but assuming the numbers are accurate, you've got a couple options.
There are some products you can run through your oil that are designed to help with blow-by... maybe a Slick50 treatement or something? You can also run a can of SeaFoam through your gastank and Seafoam the motor... might help get a little carbon off the exhaust valve seats and get them to bed a little tighter.
Swap in a used motor... 2 for sale now on m.net classifieds.
OEM rebuild for cheap... almost all of the online rebuild kits come with new pistons/rings for about $350, but you'll need to re-use the water pump, oil pump, and timing belt. If you want those parts new, the rebuild kit goes up to about $800... plus the tank/hone/labor for another $500-$800. A core swap head rebuild is about $350.
You can do a search for "mild build" and you'll discover that it takes about $2500-$2800 to fully build a motor that will reliably hold 300whp.
There are some products you can run through your oil that are designed to help with blow-by... maybe a Slick50 treatement or something? You can also run a can of SeaFoam through your gastank and Seafoam the motor... might help get a little carbon off the exhaust valve seats and get them to bed a little tighter.
Swap in a used motor... 2 for sale now on m.net classifieds.
OEM rebuild for cheap... almost all of the online rebuild kits come with new pistons/rings for about $350, but you'll need to re-use the water pump, oil pump, and timing belt. If you want those parts new, the rebuild kit goes up to about $800... plus the tank/hone/labor for another $500-$800. A core swap head rebuild is about $350.
You can do a search for "mild build" and you'll discover that it takes about $2500-$2800 to fully build a motor that will reliably hold 300whp.
#8
If the car is not missing from the issues at #3 cylinder or burning oil, just slap on the turbo and run it as is!!!
Sure it's going to be down in power a bit, but just use that engine as a learning experience for the tuning. If you want more power then get a hold another engine and build it up with some rods and pistons and boost away!!
Tony
Sure it's going to be down in power a bit, but just use that engine as a learning experience for the tuning. If you want more power then get a hold another engine and build it up with some rods and pistons and boost away!!
Tony
#11
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Please, do tell... Exactly how does a leakdown tester tell you where the leak is?
As I understand it, the only way a leakdown test will tell you where the leak is is by listening to the areas thru which leakage occurs, i.e. oil filler, radiator, intake, exhaust. The gauge itself doesn't tell you where the leak is coming from.
If I was trying to find out if my cylinder was leaking by 48% or 52% I could understand spending $300 on a gauge, but I already know one cylinder is out of spec because I've tested it relative to the other cylinders. What I'm trying to determine is whether the rings or the valves are bad. If it turns out to be the valves, I'm going to have a valve job done, but if it's the rings, I'm going to run it until it explodes.
When I get a chance I'll run the compressor directly to each cylinder at 100psi and listen.
#12
Also the HF unit says it has a gauge from 0-100 psi so I doubt it works at 15 psi.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94190
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94190
#13
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It also works on vehicles with low clearance! WTF does that mean?
"Quickly diagnose problems with pistons, rings, and valves. Cylinder leakage gauge makes it easy to conduct leak-down tests--more accurate than standard compression tests.
* For all domestic and imported engines
* Easy-to-read gauges for proper testing and accurate results
* Easy-to-adjust regulator
* Will work on vehicles with low clearance
* 0 to 100 PSI working pressure
Comes with pressure gauge, cylinder leakage gauge, spark plug adapter, quick connect/disconnect hose and regulator. "
Trust me, this POS gauge calibrates at around 15psi. I am not denying the gauge is crap, but I'm not going to spend a load of money on a gauge that will tell me basically the same thing. I trust this gauge enough to know cylinder 3 is bad.
* For all domestic and imported engines
* Easy-to-read gauges for proper testing and accurate results
* Easy-to-adjust regulator
* Will work on vehicles with low clearance
* 0 to 100 PSI working pressure
Comes with pressure gauge, cylinder leakage gauge, spark plug adapter, quick connect/disconnect hose and regulator. "
#14
Have you ever actually used one?
Please, do tell... Exactly how does a leakdown tester tell you where the leak is?
As I understand it, the only way a leakdown test will tell you where the leak is is by listening to the areas thru which leakage occurs, i.e. oil filler, radiator, intake, exhaust. The gauge itself doesn't tell you where the leak is coming from.
If I was trying to find out if my cylinder was leaking by 48% or 52% I could understand spending $300 on a gauge, but I already know one cylinder is out of spec because I've tested it relative to the other cylinders. What I'm trying to determine is whether the rings or the valves are bad. If it turns out to be the valves, I'm going to have a valve job done, but if it's the rings, I'm going to run it until it explodes.
When I get a chance I'll run the compressor directly to each cylinder at 100psi and listen.
Please, do tell... Exactly how does a leakdown tester tell you where the leak is?
As I understand it, the only way a leakdown test will tell you where the leak is is by listening to the areas thru which leakage occurs, i.e. oil filler, radiator, intake, exhaust. The gauge itself doesn't tell you where the leak is coming from.
If I was trying to find out if my cylinder was leaking by 48% or 52% I could understand spending $300 on a gauge, but I already know one cylinder is out of spec because I've tested it relative to the other cylinders. What I'm trying to determine is whether the rings or the valves are bad. If it turns out to be the valves, I'm going to have a valve job done, but if it's the rings, I'm going to run it until it explodes.
When I get a chance I'll run the compressor directly to each cylinder at 100psi and listen.
Now, you have a slightly damaged seat, valve, and a scratched cylinder. The scratch in the cylinder is filled with oil by the oil control rings, causing the engine to smoke a little at high RPMs. The intake valve has a nicked area where it leaks under high pressure, similar to a cracked valve but with less effect.
At a mind blowing 15PSI, the oil that resides in the scratch on the cylinder is enough to seal up the gap between the piston rings and the cylinder wall, therefor not revealing itself to your low pressure test.
A leakdown tester is a tool. It doesn't 'tell' anything directly. If used properly, it can be used to indicate if one or more areas of suspect are leaking, and indicate the percentage of leakage. You can get a decent leakdown gauge for like 80 bucks.
#15
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OK , I went down the street to the Boeing store and got another leakdown tester. The sales guy told me they do leakdowns on jumbo jets and fighter aircraft with it. Fighters! So you know it's accurate! So Here are my numbers:
CYL.--DRY/WET---LD
1-----176/200----28%
2-----174/195----35%
3-----154/177----50%
4-----180/195----30%
Any ideas?
CYL.--DRY/WET---LD
1-----176/200----28%
2-----174/195----35%
3-----154/177----50%
4-----180/195----30%
Any ideas?
#17
OK , I went down the street to the Boeing store and got another leakdown tester. The sales guy told me they do leakdowns on jumbo jets and fighter aircraft with it. Fighters! So you know it's accurate! So Here are my numbers:
CYL.--DRY/WET---LD
1-----176/200----28%
2-----174/195----35%
3-----154/177----50%
4-----180/195----30%
Any ideas?
CYL.--DRY/WET---LD
1-----176/200----28%
2-----174/195----35%
3-----154/177----50%
4-----180/195----30%
Any ideas?
Tony
#19
OK , I went down the street to the Boeing store and got another leakdown tester. The sales guy told me they do leakdowns on jumbo jets and fighter aircraft with it. Fighters! So you know it's accurate! So Here are my numbers:
CYL.--DRY/WET---LD
1-----176/200----28%
2-----174/195----35%
3-----154/177----50%
4-----180/195----30%
Any ideas?
CYL.--DRY/WET---LD
1-----176/200----28%
2-----174/195----35%
3-----154/177----50%
4-----180/195----30%
Any ideas?
#20
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For those who thought I was being serious about buying another tester, STOP POSTING NOW!
For those who want to know, it is an exhaust valve in the #3 cylinder. I will take some pictures and post how I know this later.
FWIW, I took samnavy's advice and ran some seafoam thru the motor. Very interesting results:
CYL.--DRY/WET
1-----180/227
2-----179/235
3-----160/214
4-----181/229
As compared to my original test results:
CYL.--DRY/WET
1-----176/200
2-----174/195
3-----154/177
4-----180/195
The dry numbers went up across the board. The wet numbers are not really significant as I used much more oil this time around.
Maybe it was an anomaly, but the seafoam certainly didn't hurt. Made the car feel a bit stronger too.
For those who want to know, it is an exhaust valve in the #3 cylinder. I will take some pictures and post how I know this later.
FWIW, I took samnavy's advice and ran some seafoam thru the motor. Very interesting results:
CYL.--DRY/WET
1-----180/227
2-----179/235
3-----160/214
4-----181/229
As compared to my original test results:
CYL.--DRY/WET
1-----176/200
2-----174/195
3-----154/177
4-----180/195
The dry numbers went up across the board. The wet numbers are not really significant as I used much more oil this time around.
Maybe it was an anomaly, but the seafoam certainly didn't hurt. Made the car feel a bit stronger too.