Do I really need a mspnp?
02-17-2010, 03:25 PM
#4
Um...no.
Well yes, you should get the MSPNP, but no on bigger injectors and 14psi. Stock ECU is utter crap for boosting. Some folks get close to that much boost with bandaids, but it's hard to decently tune, and easy to **** up.
13.9lbs might be okay though with big enough injectors.
Well yes, you should get the MSPNP, but no on bigger injectors and 14psi. Stock ECU is utter crap for boosting. Some folks get close to that much boost with bandaids, but it's hard to decently tune, and easy to **** up.
13.9lbs might be okay though with big enough injectors.
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02-17-2010, 03:33 PM
#5
The only reason not to get a MSPNP is that many members here will assemble basically the same thing for cheaper with a DIY kit.
PM curly about the difference between bandaids and megasquirt as he spent a lot of time using bandaids before I built him his megasquirt. I think one of his last PMs to me was "I need help, my car is running great and I dont know what to do!"
PM curly about the difference between bandaids and megasquirt as he spent a lot of time using bandaids before I built him his megasquirt. I think one of his last PMs to me was "I need help, my car is running great and I dont know what to do!"
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02-17-2010, 03:40 PM
#9
I think you are missing the point. Honestly, you could get away with 14 psi on bandaids. The issue is, you are missing out on power, safety, and drivability that you would get if you just nutted up and bought a megasquirt. You could sell the bipes and the RRFPR and make back some of the investment.
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02-17-2010, 05:15 PM
#14
Elite Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,642
Total Cats: 36
I went the bandaids route with my last car before getting some real managment. Never again.
All it took was a few weeks of endlessly trying to get the thing dialed in and having weird knock issues and not being able to enjoy all the work I had put in to convince me to pay the 650 or so for decent management.
And dont forget that you have some straight performance gains beyond just the safety and useability too. Ditch the AFM, two step, and actual tune that makes sense, etc.
One issue with going with injectors much larger than stock with a stock ECU is that for one thing larger injectors often have different opening and closing characteristics. So you get more flow, but the injector also opens and closes slower. Proper management allows you to handle this. With a stock ECU you just end up with a crappy idle and bad gas mileage. Probably be OK at WOT, but not so much elsewhere.
All it took was a few weeks of endlessly trying to get the thing dialed in and having weird knock issues and not being able to enjoy all the work I had put in to convince me to pay the 650 or so for decent management.
And dont forget that you have some straight performance gains beyond just the safety and useability too. Ditch the AFM, two step, and actual tune that makes sense, etc.
One issue with going with injectors much larger than stock with a stock ECU is that for one thing larger injectors often have different opening and closing characteristics. So you get more flow, but the injector also opens and closes slower. Proper management allows you to handle this. With a stock ECU you just end up with a crappy idle and bad gas mileage. Probably be OK at WOT, but not so much elsewhere.
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02-17-2010, 07:17 PM
#16
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,175
Total Cats: 1,129
Alright, let's see if I can put all my thoughts about this thread on screen coherently.
First of all, as a former and long time bandaid user, I have plenty of experience. I had them for a good 3 years, which included 5 track days. I had a BEGI AFPR, olderguy o2 clamp, and bipes.
At 5-8 psi it was fine. Set it and more or less leave it, every once in a while the AFR's would change, and by futzing with it I'd occasionally get it back to where I want it, and occasionally it'd go back on its own for no apparent reason. I was fairly happy with it, and like I said had some decent track days on this setup.
Above that however, is where I started running into issues. Even with a supposedly infinately adjustable afpr, I'd either stumble like hell while transitioning into boost, or run uber rich towards redline. There was a fine line somewhere in there that I found once or twice, but only once I lowered my manual boost controller from 12-10.
After going to MS, I can say only one thing: wow. HP numbers are useless, as they only tell you your peak hp, and I can say without a doubt that the largest gain is everywhere else in the rpm range. Yes there was no doubt a nice jump in peak power, but everywhere else was more powerful as well. My boost was much more steady, my bov was much louder, my air/fuel ratios were rock solid, and as I said before: wow.
It also seems like you don't quite understand the hierarchy of megasquirts, let me help you there.
MSPNP: This is a plug and play megasquirt, which requires literally unplugging the stock ECU, and plugging in the MS, along with running a vacuum line from the MS to the intake manifold so the MS knows your boost. This is $700.
Braineack MS: He'll build you more or less the above for $425. Instead of plugging right into the car's harness, you'll have an adapter harness to go between the MS and the miata's harness.
DIY MS: This is one you build yourself for a grand total of $260ish. You must have soldering skills however. Add $50-100 to that and know the right people on the board here and they'll build it for you. This method is a little more "enter at your own risk" over a Braineack MS.
Just thought since you kept throwing the term "MSPNP" around that you might need some clarification.
First of all, as a former and long time bandaid user, I have plenty of experience. I had them for a good 3 years, which included 5 track days. I had a BEGI AFPR, olderguy o2 clamp, and bipes.
At 5-8 psi it was fine. Set it and more or less leave it, every once in a while the AFR's would change, and by futzing with it I'd occasionally get it back to where I want it, and occasionally it'd go back on its own for no apparent reason. I was fairly happy with it, and like I said had some decent track days on this setup.
Above that however, is where I started running into issues. Even with a supposedly infinately adjustable afpr, I'd either stumble like hell while transitioning into boost, or run uber rich towards redline. There was a fine line somewhere in there that I found once or twice, but only once I lowered my manual boost controller from 12-10.
After going to MS, I can say only one thing: wow. HP numbers are useless, as they only tell you your peak hp, and I can say without a doubt that the largest gain is everywhere else in the rpm range. Yes there was no doubt a nice jump in peak power, but everywhere else was more powerful as well. My boost was much more steady, my bov was much louder, my air/fuel ratios were rock solid, and as I said before: wow.
It also seems like you don't quite understand the hierarchy of megasquirts, let me help you there.
MSPNP: This is a plug and play megasquirt, which requires literally unplugging the stock ECU, and plugging in the MS, along with running a vacuum line from the MS to the intake manifold so the MS knows your boost. This is $700.
Braineack MS: He'll build you more or less the above for $425. Instead of plugging right into the car's harness, you'll have an adapter harness to go between the MS and the miata's harness.
DIY MS: This is one you build yourself for a grand total of $260ish. You must have soldering skills however. Add $50-100 to that and know the right people on the board here and they'll build it for you. This method is a little more "enter at your own risk" over a Braineack MS.
Just thought since you kept throwing the term "MSPNP" around that you might need some clarification.
Last edited by curly; 02-17-2010 at 07:35 PM.
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02-17-2010, 07:26 PM
#17
DIY MS: This is one you build yourself for a grand total of $230ish. You must have soldering skills however. Add $50-100 to that and know the right people on the board here and they'll build it for you. This method is a little more "enter at your own risk" over a Braineack MS.
/misinformation
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02-17-2010, 07:37 PM
#18
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,175
Total Cats: 1,129
Edited it to $260, which is what I paid for everything, but I bought one of the cheaper harness and AIT sensor options. That includes shipping, fan mod, and PWM IAC mod.
p.s. I had a big plan to edit my post and yours to make you look like an idiot, but apparently mods can't do everything, lulz.
p.s. I had a big plan to edit my post and yours to make you look like an idiot, but apparently mods can't do everything, lulz.
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02-17-2010, 07:43 PM
#19
Edited it to $260, which is what I paid for everything, but I bought one of the cheaper harness and AIT sensor options. That includes shipping, fan mod, and PWM IAC mod.
p.s. I had a big plan to edit my post and yours to make you look like an idiot, but apparently mods can't do everything, lulz.
p.s. I had a big plan to edit my post and yours to make you look like an idiot, but apparently mods can't do everything, lulz.
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02-17-2010, 07:49 PM
#20
What about 11? Do I hear 10? Is this a reverse auction?
This place has gone soft. WAAAAY to many reasonable and well thought out responses to a 1 sentence question.
How about this. Read the FAQ.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t10821/#post513134
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