Gonna' Have Fun Tomorrow
03-20-2012, 05:49 PM
#1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,301
Total Cats: 696
Gonna' Have Fun Tomorrow
Somehow, managed to get an invite to BFG's intro event for their new G-Force Sport Comp-2. Basically, it's like this:
1. Held at MSR-C (about 10 miles from the house). A full day at the track, gratis.
2. Get to flog all the latest pony cars (Challenger SRT8, Camaro SS, Boss 302) and some pocket rockets (VW GTI, Subie WRX STI). Hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of brand-new machinery with all the new tires and high-test I can burn.
3. When I get hungry, they feed me lunch.
Only got the nod yesterday and the event is tomorrow, so I'm guessing somebody backed out and I was in the right place at the right time. I'd rather be lucky than good any day.
1. Held at MSR-C (about 10 miles from the house). A full day at the track, gratis.
2. Get to flog all the latest pony cars (Challenger SRT8, Camaro SS, Boss 302) and some pocket rockets (VW GTI, Subie WRX STI). Hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of brand-new machinery with all the new tires and high-test I can burn.
3. When I get hungry, they feed me lunch.
Only got the nod yesterday and the event is tomorrow, so I'm guessing somebody backed out and I was in the right place at the right time. I'd rather be lucky than good any day.
Reply
0
0
03-20-2012, 07:59 PM
#8
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
Or be a man and drive the car so hard it overheats the brakes, water, or breaks turbo plumbing, rather than going out to be a heathen. I've always wanted to see which showroom cars could handle the abuse we throw at them.
Reply
0
0
03-20-2012, 08:30 PM
#9
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,682
Total Cats: 130
You're a dick.
I recommend putting your right foot down as soon as you start each car and never letting it up. Just power through everything. Just like you do life Mr Lawyer Accountant Doctor Dryer Duct Intake Man.
I recommend putting your right foot down as soon as you start each car and never letting it up. Just power through everything. Just like you do life Mr Lawyer Accountant Doctor Dryer Duct Intake Man.
Reply
0
0
03-20-2012, 08:34 PM
#10
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,468
Total Cats: 365
Hornetball, if you can manage to induce a stress-related failure because the vehicles cannot accommodate your mt.net manliness, I will buy you a beer, and I propose that your handle then be changed to Hornetballbuster.
Reply
0
0
03-23-2012, 11:12 AM
#14
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,301
Total Cats: 696
We broke a Challenger 392's bushings. But, it was a team effort.
There was also some lawn mowing done with a Subie, but I can't lay claim to that.
I gotta say, it was a blast. I'll workup a full, "thoughtful" write-up over the WE with pix. It was also an inside look at the tire biz, pretty fascinating. If you guys ever get a chance to do something like this . . . .
There was also some lawn mowing done with a Subie, but I can't lay claim to that.
I gotta say, it was a blast. I'll workup a full, "thoughtful" write-up over the WE with pix. It was also an inside look at the tire biz, pretty fascinating. If you guys ever get a chance to do something like this . . . .
Reply
0
0
03-23-2012, 03:28 PM
#16
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
We broke a Challenger 392's bushings. But, it was a team effort.
There was also some lawn mowing done with a Subie, but I can't lay claim to that.
I gotta say, it was a blast. I'll workup a full, "thoughtful" write-up over the WE with pix. It was also an inside look at the tire biz, pretty fascinating. If you guys ever get a chance to do something like this . . . .
There was also some lawn mowing done with a Subie, but I can't lay claim to that.
I gotta say, it was a blast. I'll workup a full, "thoughtful" write-up over the WE with pix. It was also an inside look at the tire biz, pretty fascinating. If you guys ever get a chance to do something like this . . . .
Reply
0
0
04-04-2012, 08:01 PM
#18
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,301
Total Cats: 696
Sorry guys, got REALLY busy at work.
Disclaimer:
My Dad is a retired, 40-year BFG man. My earliest memories involve wreaking havoc with BFG tire ashtrays -- that's right, corporate automotive give-aways used to involve drinking and smoking!!
Understand up front that I am loyal to the Michelin and BFG brands. Given the choice between equivalent, similarly-priced tires, I will always choose to support Dad's retirement.
Pictures:
The dawn over MSR-C. I love the smell of gasoline and hot brakes in the morning:
Line 'em up!
Boss 302
Challenger 392
Camaros galore:
Tires, tires and more tires:
Old tires:
Trashing the Challenger (0-60-0):
Mowing with a Subie:
Rode hard, put away wet:
Musings on Tires:
The point of this exercise was for BFG to introduce their new UHP tire, the G-Force Sport Comp-2. For those who don't know, Summer performance street tires are subdivided into 3 categories. In order of dry traction performance (and reverse order of treadlife rating), they are:
1. Extreme Performance (RS-3, Star Spec and their ilk). Typically in the 100s for treadwear. Due to the light weight of the Miata, many of us run these on our DDs.
2. Maximum Performance (Michelin Pilot Super Sports, etc.). Typically in the 200s for treadwear, although the Pilot Super Sports on my Poncho G8GT are rated 300. Combined with Enkei PF-01s, I was able to cut 10 pounds (you read that right!) off EACH corner from OEM. The tire is much stickier than the OEM tire and also has a longer treadlife. Love that tire. Alas, not available in a Miata-friendly size.
3. Ultra High Performance (Yoko S-Drive, BFG Comp-2). This is the tire category I normally use on my DD Miata. I ran Yoko S-Drives for about 2 and a half years. Last year, I switched to the origninal BFG G-Force Sport design (didn't know they had this new one in the works). Both tires were 300ish in treadwear, and last practically forever on a Miata. At about 30K miles on the S-Drives, I was still at about 30-40%.
At the event, we got to drive identical cars shod with the BFG Comp-2 and competitor UHP-category tires. Obviously, the point was to show the BFG tire in the best possible light. Nonetheless, it's performance was impressive. BFG is a brand name of Michelin, and a lot of Michelin technology has filtered into the Comp-2 (within the Michelin hierarchy, Michelin brand tires are considered Tier-1, BFG are considered Tier-2, Uniroyal are considered Tier-3). The two main things that have been added to the Comp-2 as compared to the previous G-Force Sport are:
1. A high-silica compound that is sticky in wet and dry conditions while not giving up treadlife (imported from the Pilot Super Sport).
2. A stiffening side belt that is triangle-shaped with the thick side at the tire bead. This is supposed to add response in corners without harshening the ride or distorting the contact patch.
The events/cars we drove and my impressions:
1. VW GTI on a wet/dry autocross track laid out on the South loop at MSR-C. A water truck was constantly wetting down the wet part of the track. On the VW GTI, we drove the Kumho Ecsta SPT KU31 and Comp-2 back to back. The thing I remember is that the Kumho's felt sloppy, like they were 10psi low. That just made them much harder to drive all around than the BFGs.
2. Subaru WRX STI on the same wet/dry autocross track. Comparison was between Yokohama S-Drives and Comp-2. I was already familiar with the S-Drives having driven on them for several years. The test lived up to expectations. In the dry, the Yokos felt nice and responsive -- it didn't take much slip angle to generate lateral force and you could flip it easily. The Comp-2s felt about the same as the Yokos in responsiveness. But, in the wet, it was night and day. The Comp-2s are just amazing on water. Also, when you reach the limit, the Yokos tend to give up abruptly, while the Comp-2s plateau and still give you good lateral force that diminishes gradually. The Comp-2s were much more forgiving and easier to drive at the limit. As you can see in the pictures, some of the S-Drive shod Subies left the track because of this characteristic. I managed to stay on track, but only because I initially learned to drive on a 1973 2WD Ford F-250 with open differential in NE Ohio Winters (either that, or I'm a wimp). I was scrambling with the S-Drives, and it brought back memories of a couple of exciting drives I had with them on my Miata.
3. Challenger 392 on a 0-60-0 run. This was purely an instrumented test to measure stopping distances with GPS while using the Challenger's ABS system. Comparison tires were the Hankook Ventus V12 Evo and Comp-2. Averaged over hundreds of stops, the Comp-2 was beating the Hankooks by about 9 feet. Boring drive. Mash the throttle, mash the brake pedal, next. I felt bad for the instructor having to do that over and over. The Challengers were puking front suspension bushings from the abuse.
4. Camaro SS on a road course laid out on the North loop at MSR-C. A few cones were set out to help drivers visualize the racing line. Comparison was between Cooper Zeon RS3-S and Comp-2 and we got two laps with each. Honestly, I thought the two tires felt similar, but the Comp-2s were a couple clicks faster. I can't really say if that was a tire thing or a course familiarity thing.
5. Boss 302 on the road course with an instructor driving. No comparison, the point of this was to show how the Comp-2 performed in the hands of a competent driver. I got to ride along with Skip Barber Chief Instructor Terry Earwood. His racing CV is as long as this never-ending post, and much more impressive. It was a hoot. Terry has that easy-going "been there, won that" manner and his driving was precise and utterly fluid. Someday . . . but probably not. Sigh.
It all ended WAY too soon.
Some other interesting (or depressing) tidbits:
1. This was actually a Discount Tire event. In addition to the product comparisons, presentations focused on how to sell the tire, who the intended customer was (they found a picture of Hustler holding hands with Fae for that slide -- don't know where they got it), profit margins, ordering stock, yada, yada. To BFG's credit, they also had a long presentation on alignment, handling, aspect ratio effects, chassis dynamics and the importance of wheel/tire weight, etc. It was nice to see a manufacturer trying to spread some real technical knowledge into its dealers.
2. Marketing focus has changed. The original G-Force Sport came out when the tuner craze was going. It has lots of Miata-friendly sizes (I'm running 205/50R15). Now, it's all about muscle cars. There are only two 15" sizes of the Comp-2 (the best for us being a 195/50R15). All the rest are 16" through 20". The focus is not on us, and I suspect this is a trend that we'll be seeing across the industry. Darn shame because tire technology is always progressing, and we're likely to start being shut out of it as time goes on.
3. Michelin sees the classic, American BFG brand as a great asset for competing in the muscle car arena. They are breathing serious life into the brand, which means we're likely to see some other great products from BFG -- maybe even an Extreme Performance tire. I just hope they make one in our sizes.
Musings on Cars:
We're living in a golden age. Drove a wide selection of brand new cars, all of which were trackworthy right off the showroom floor. Any one of these cars would have seemed like a miracle twenty years ago (when the Miata was a miracle).
1. VW GTI: Soft brake pedal. Lots of room. Nice handling for a FWD.
2. Subie WRX STI: Nice car. Darn quiet. I know it has a turbo, but I'll be darned if I can hear it.
3. Challenger 392: Big friggin' engine. Very nice interior. Lousy visibility from the retro styling. Not holding up to the abuse.
4. Camaro SS: Cheating here because I own a Poncho G8GT which is the same engine and chassis. LS engines are da bomb. Lousy visibility from the retro styling. A sunroof and a helment don't mix. With the automatic, accelerating out of a corner goes . . . throttle . . . one-potato, two-potato, ignition, blast-off. Yuck. Needs the transmission tune from my Pontiac.
5. Boss 302: Awesome. Is it the car or is it Terry?
6. 1990 Mazda Turbo Miata: At the end of the day, I didn't mind one bit driving this one home. Miatas with a little boost are truly awesome, even at 23 years old.
My Dad is a retired, 40-year BFG man. My earliest memories involve wreaking havoc with BFG tire ashtrays -- that's right, corporate automotive give-aways used to involve drinking and smoking!!
Understand up front that I am loyal to the Michelin and BFG brands. Given the choice between equivalent, similarly-priced tires, I will always choose to support Dad's retirement.
Pictures:
The dawn over MSR-C. I love the smell of gasoline and hot brakes in the morning:
Line 'em up!
Boss 302
Challenger 392
Camaros galore:
Tires, tires and more tires:
Old tires:
Trashing the Challenger (0-60-0):
Mowing with a Subie:
Rode hard, put away wet:
Musings on Tires:
The point of this exercise was for BFG to introduce their new UHP tire, the G-Force Sport Comp-2. For those who don't know, Summer performance street tires are subdivided into 3 categories. In order of dry traction performance (and reverse order of treadlife rating), they are:
1. Extreme Performance (RS-3, Star Spec and their ilk). Typically in the 100s for treadwear. Due to the light weight of the Miata, many of us run these on our DDs.
2. Maximum Performance (Michelin Pilot Super Sports, etc.). Typically in the 200s for treadwear, although the Pilot Super Sports on my Poncho G8GT are rated 300. Combined with Enkei PF-01s, I was able to cut 10 pounds (you read that right!) off EACH corner from OEM. The tire is much stickier than the OEM tire and also has a longer treadlife. Love that tire. Alas, not available in a Miata-friendly size.
3. Ultra High Performance (Yoko S-Drive, BFG Comp-2). This is the tire category I normally use on my DD Miata. I ran Yoko S-Drives for about 2 and a half years. Last year, I switched to the origninal BFG G-Force Sport design (didn't know they had this new one in the works). Both tires were 300ish in treadwear, and last practically forever on a Miata. At about 30K miles on the S-Drives, I was still at about 30-40%.
At the event, we got to drive identical cars shod with the BFG Comp-2 and competitor UHP-category tires. Obviously, the point was to show the BFG tire in the best possible light. Nonetheless, it's performance was impressive. BFG is a brand name of Michelin, and a lot of Michelin technology has filtered into the Comp-2 (within the Michelin hierarchy, Michelin brand tires are considered Tier-1, BFG are considered Tier-2, Uniroyal are considered Tier-3). The two main things that have been added to the Comp-2 as compared to the previous G-Force Sport are:
1. A high-silica compound that is sticky in wet and dry conditions while not giving up treadlife (imported from the Pilot Super Sport).
2. A stiffening side belt that is triangle-shaped with the thick side at the tire bead. This is supposed to add response in corners without harshening the ride or distorting the contact patch.
The events/cars we drove and my impressions:
1. VW GTI on a wet/dry autocross track laid out on the South loop at MSR-C. A water truck was constantly wetting down the wet part of the track. On the VW GTI, we drove the Kumho Ecsta SPT KU31 and Comp-2 back to back. The thing I remember is that the Kumho's felt sloppy, like they were 10psi low. That just made them much harder to drive all around than the BFGs.
2. Subaru WRX STI on the same wet/dry autocross track. Comparison was between Yokohama S-Drives and Comp-2. I was already familiar with the S-Drives having driven on them for several years. The test lived up to expectations. In the dry, the Yokos felt nice and responsive -- it didn't take much slip angle to generate lateral force and you could flip it easily. The Comp-2s felt about the same as the Yokos in responsiveness. But, in the wet, it was night and day. The Comp-2s are just amazing on water. Also, when you reach the limit, the Yokos tend to give up abruptly, while the Comp-2s plateau and still give you good lateral force that diminishes gradually. The Comp-2s were much more forgiving and easier to drive at the limit. As you can see in the pictures, some of the S-Drive shod Subies left the track because of this characteristic. I managed to stay on track, but only because I initially learned to drive on a 1973 2WD Ford F-250 with open differential in NE Ohio Winters (either that, or I'm a wimp). I was scrambling with the S-Drives, and it brought back memories of a couple of exciting drives I had with them on my Miata.
3. Challenger 392 on a 0-60-0 run. This was purely an instrumented test to measure stopping distances with GPS while using the Challenger's ABS system. Comparison tires were the Hankook Ventus V12 Evo and Comp-2. Averaged over hundreds of stops, the Comp-2 was beating the Hankooks by about 9 feet. Boring drive. Mash the throttle, mash the brake pedal, next. I felt bad for the instructor having to do that over and over. The Challengers were puking front suspension bushings from the abuse.
4. Camaro SS on a road course laid out on the North loop at MSR-C. A few cones were set out to help drivers visualize the racing line. Comparison was between Cooper Zeon RS3-S and Comp-2 and we got two laps with each. Honestly, I thought the two tires felt similar, but the Comp-2s were a couple clicks faster. I can't really say if that was a tire thing or a course familiarity thing.
5. Boss 302 on the road course with an instructor driving. No comparison, the point of this was to show how the Comp-2 performed in the hands of a competent driver. I got to ride along with Skip Barber Chief Instructor Terry Earwood. His racing CV is as long as this never-ending post, and much more impressive. It was a hoot. Terry has that easy-going "been there, won that" manner and his driving was precise and utterly fluid. Someday . . . but probably not. Sigh.
It all ended WAY too soon.
Some other interesting (or depressing) tidbits:
1. This was actually a Discount Tire event. In addition to the product comparisons, presentations focused on how to sell the tire, who the intended customer was (they found a picture of Hustler holding hands with Fae for that slide -- don't know where they got it), profit margins, ordering stock, yada, yada. To BFG's credit, they also had a long presentation on alignment, handling, aspect ratio effects, chassis dynamics and the importance of wheel/tire weight, etc. It was nice to see a manufacturer trying to spread some real technical knowledge into its dealers.
2. Marketing focus has changed. The original G-Force Sport came out when the tuner craze was going. It has lots of Miata-friendly sizes (I'm running 205/50R15). Now, it's all about muscle cars. There are only two 15" sizes of the Comp-2 (the best for us being a 195/50R15). All the rest are 16" through 20". The focus is not on us, and I suspect this is a trend that we'll be seeing across the industry. Darn shame because tire technology is always progressing, and we're likely to start being shut out of it as time goes on.
3. Michelin sees the classic, American BFG brand as a great asset for competing in the muscle car arena. They are breathing serious life into the brand, which means we're likely to see some other great products from BFG -- maybe even an Extreme Performance tire. I just hope they make one in our sizes.
Musings on Cars:
We're living in a golden age. Drove a wide selection of brand new cars, all of which were trackworthy right off the showroom floor. Any one of these cars would have seemed like a miracle twenty years ago (when the Miata was a miracle).
1. VW GTI: Soft brake pedal. Lots of room. Nice handling for a FWD.
2. Subie WRX STI: Nice car. Darn quiet. I know it has a turbo, but I'll be darned if I can hear it.
3. Challenger 392: Big friggin' engine. Very nice interior. Lousy visibility from the retro styling. Not holding up to the abuse.
4. Camaro SS: Cheating here because I own a Poncho G8GT which is the same engine and chassis. LS engines are da bomb. Lousy visibility from the retro styling. A sunroof and a helment don't mix. With the automatic, accelerating out of a corner goes . . . throttle . . . one-potato, two-potato, ignition, blast-off. Yuck. Needs the transmission tune from my Pontiac.
5. Boss 302: Awesome. Is it the car or is it Terry?
6. 1990 Mazda Turbo Miata: At the end of the day, I didn't mind one bit driving this one home. Miatas with a little boost are truly awesome, even at 23 years old.
Reply
0
0
04-06-2012, 03:38 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 638
Total Cats: 76
I've been considering these new gforce sports for my wifes mazdaspeed3. I have some concerns about them being worse in grip than the oem dunslops. I worry about my wife dealing with excessive tq steer. As long as it's not worse than it is now I'd be fine with it.
I realize that you have no idea how these compare to a dunlop sport 2030. However do you think they'd be up to the task of a 280hp/280tq fwd car?
I realize that you have no idea how these compare to a dunlop sport 2030. However do you think they'd be up to the task of a 280hp/280tq fwd car?
Reply
0
0
