Here we go again. Morons at that MSM forum
#23
AAAAAAAARRGH! we all know that. hell, we stated that Paul has done basically all of his tuning on the street. He uses the dyno to have solid answers on if his mods are effective or not.
the fact remains that the OP is expected horsepower numbers that he will not obtain. Probably not even with hours of dyno tuning to extract every last bit of power.
the fact remains that the OP is expected horsepower numbers that he will not obtain. Probably not even with hours of dyno tuning to extract every last bit of power.
#24
AAAAAAAARRGH! we all know that. hell, we stated that Paul has done basically all of his tuning on the street. He uses the dyno to have solid answers on if his mods are effective or not.
the fact remains that the OP is expected horsepower numbers that he will not obtain. Probably not even with hours of dyno tuning to extract every last bit of power.
the fact remains that the OP is expected horsepower numbers that he will not obtain. Probably not even with hours of dyno tuning to extract every last bit of power.
#25
Actually it's a fact because I've seen it done many many times. How long have you been building hot rods? We you wrenching in the 80 or early 90s when you had to save up just to afford a session on a dyno? There is no argunment here that the dyno is a ver usefull tool, but that does not make it necessary. What you are trying to accomplish is what determines of it's actually necessary. And you call them moron?
#27
Actually it's a fact because I've seen it done many many times. How long have you been building hot rods? We you wrenching in the 80 or early 90s when you had to save up just to afford a session on a dyno? There is no argunment here that the dyno is a ver usefull tool, but that does not make it necessary. What you are trying to accomplish is what determines of it's actually necessary. And you call them moron?
You can not tune everything on the street as well as you can on a dyno.
FACT.
FACT.
Perhaps your definition of tune is not the same as mine. Sure you can get a decent tune on the street. But it won't necessarily be optimal. Some changes in the tune have small effects that are not easily recognized by a wideband or your butt-dyno, or even on a track. You can get close without a dyno, sure. But it's your opinion that close is good enough. I can't say I've ever seen someone tune a spark map for MBT on a boosted motor any other way than using a dyno. There line for error is small and any other means of recording the changes will introduce to much error to gather meaningful results.
Anyways, please stop arguing with me. I stay away from that site because I don't like dealing with morons with MSM's.
#28
You can not tune everything on the street as well as you can on a dyno.
FACT.
FACT.
Perhaps your definition of tune is not the same as mine. Sure you can get a decent tune on the street. But it won't necessarily be optimal. Some changes in the tune have small effects that are not easily recognized by a wideband or your butt-dyno, or even on a track. You can get close without a dyno, sure. But it's your opinion that close is good enough. I can't say I've ever seen someone tune a spark map for MBT on a boosted motor any other way than using a dyno. There line for error is small and any other means of recording the changes will introduce to much error to gather meaningful results.
Anyways, please stop arguing with me. I stay away from that site because I don't like dealing with morons with MSM's.
#29
FACT...Close is good enough for a lot of people. That is not an opinion it is a fact. Fact, I understand tuning, and I understand what can be done on a dyno vs tuning on the track. "Fact" there are people that can tune on the track and in many cases, end up with better results. Fact...you still fail to acknowledge that the dyno is not necessary to tune a car, which is what was stated, is it optimal? IMO yes, necessary, no. There are people that have been building and tuning cars far longer than you've been tinkering on your miata, that have been tuning with EFI for years, I guess you could tell some of them they are idiots. You have not been in the car game long enough to know every ******* thing. It takes a moron to think he knows everything and can't accept that his way is not the only way.
#31
I already did, you're just ******* ignorant. Have you ever been to the track and see guys runnning in a class with similar setups? A guy is a tad bit behind, he whips out the trusty laptop, make a few practice runs, does a little tuning, and next thing ya know, he's up front? The guy who can only tune on the dyno has to wait another day to get tuned again. He returns to the track, maybe he made up the difference, maybe not, but that ****** that can tune on the fly seems to always be able to come up with something to get his **** around the track faster. If you race, it's all about how fast you get around the track, not how much RWHP you make on the dyno. Bottom line genius, the dyno is a great tool, very useful, but it is not the end all to be all, and there are other ways. And close is good enough for a lot of people.
#32
I already did, you're just ******* ignorant. Have you ever been to the track and see guys runnning in a class with similar setups? A guy is a tad bit behind, he whips out the trusty laptop, make a few practice runs, does a little tuning, and next thing ya know, he's up front? The guy who can only tune on the dyno has to wait another day to get tuned again. He returns to the track, maybe he made up the difference, maybe not, but that ****** that can tune on the fly seems to always be able to come up with something to get his **** around the track faster. If you race, it's all about how fast you get around the track, not how much RWHP you make on the dyno. Bottom line genius, the dyno is a great tool, very useful, but it is not the end all to be all, and there are other ways. And close is good enough for a lot of people.
#33
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is this discussion really happening? Holy ****, I look smarter every day on here.
I put my car on the dyno, tuned spark for MBT in each cell, and whatever AFR specifically for each cell. If you can feel 4whp, 3wtq, and hear whisps of detonation in a racecar with a helmet on, I'm impressed. Its more likely that whoever is tuning on the track is a ******* moron, and I'm faster than he is, and make more power, torque, and testosterone.
I put my car on the dyno, tuned spark for MBT in each cell, and whatever AFR specifically for each cell. If you can feel 4whp, 3wtq, and hear whisps of detonation in a racecar with a helmet on, I'm impressed. Its more likely that whoever is tuning on the track is a ******* moron, and I'm faster than he is, and make more power, torque, and testosterone.
#34
FACT...Close is good enough for a lot of people. That is not an opinion it is a fact. Fact, I understand tuning, and I understand what can be done on a dyno vs tuning on the track. "Fact" there are people that can tune on the track and in many cases, end up with better results. Fact...you still fail to acknowledge that the dyno is not necessary to tune a car, which is what was stated, is it optimal? IMO yes, necessary, no. There are people that have been building and tuning cars far longer than you've been tinkering on your miata, that have been tuning with EFI for years, I guess you could tell some of them they are idiots. You have not been in the car game long enough to know every ******* thing. It takes a moron to think he knows everything and can't accept that his way is not the only way.
I already did, you're just ******* ignorant. Have you ever been to the track and see guys runnning in a class with similar setups? A guy is a tad bit behind, he whips out the trusty laptop, make a few practice runs, does a little tuning, and next thing ya know, he's up front? The guy who can only tune on the dyno has to wait another day to get tuned again. He returns to the track, maybe he made up the difference, maybe not, but that ****** that can tune on the fly seems to always be able to come up with something to get his **** around the track faster. If you race, it's all about how fast you get around the track, not how much RWHP you make on the dyno. Bottom line genius, the dyno is a great tool, very useful, but it is not the end all to be all, and there are other ways. And close is good enough for a lot of people.
#35
Actually it's a fact because I've seen it done many many times. How long have you been building hot rods? We you wrenching in the 80 or early 90s when you had to save up just to afford a session on a dyno? There is no argunment here that the dyno is a ver usefull tool, but that does not make it necessary. What you are trying to accomplish is what determines of it's actually necessary. And you call them moron?
Welcome to the future. I do a research paper in a quarter of the time you did in the 80's and my resources are twice as good.
#36
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I love explaining this to the dallas supercharger crew. They have a hard time justifying $-per-peak-whp.
I remember years ago, before I really knew the minute details on tuning that I know today, "we" took Yojo's black GTI to Bryce and it made like 310whp at 12psi. We left at a lower MAP, 275whp, and the car felt like a rocket in comparison.
I also remember closing billy T's wastegate shut and blowing up the turbo on a 1000 mile car, lol. Ah yes, the glory days of "Kentech."
Bryce does something on the dyno where his cars are unreasonably fast for the #'s they make. (yojo's gti, jeremy's gti, dirty's 1st gen dsm, the blue evo)
I remember years ago, before I really knew the minute details on tuning that I know today, "we" took Yojo's black GTI to Bryce and it made like 310whp at 12psi. We left at a lower MAP, 275whp, and the car felt like a rocket in comparison.
I also remember closing billy T's wastegate shut and blowing up the turbo on a 1000 mile car, lol. Ah yes, the glory days of "Kentech."
Bryce does something on the dyno where his cars are unreasonably fast for the #'s they make. (yojo's gti, jeremy's gti, dirty's 1st gen dsm, the blue evo)
#37
Do you ******* morons read? I said, DYNO TUNING IS GOOD!!!!. What you ******* asshats don't get, or could not or refuse to comprehend is, some people, especially those that don't race for a ******* living is fine with close!!!! I am one of those in "SOME CASES" case in point. My MSM is a street driven car, wont likely go to the track for anything other than some fun laps at VIR. In this case, autotune and a few tweaks is good enough for what I use the car for. Could I get more power on the dyno with a good tuner..YES!!!! but I don't care because I don't need it, it's not a concern for me, and I don't give a ****, I have other faster cars that are my priority. The current power levels are fine for what I am doing with the car. The guy you ******* are calling moron has an atom (or 3) which is where his priorities are, his MSM is an after thouoght. I also find it funny that some of you stupid ************* get a ******* miata and finally figure out how to turn a wrench or two, and all of a sudden you are automotive geniuses. Hustler, you should really STFU, you don't know **** with that POS raggady *** **** you have..Is this you first build? Did you see me say anything about "feeling 3,4,5 HP, NO!, and if you can't ******* here detonation you need to go back to ground zero. As far as people tuning at the track being morons, there are a lot of morons around, a lot of people tune at the track. Maybe you should actually go to a ******* track you ******* moron. Have you ever put togther any other car other than a ******* miata? Honda's civics don't count.
#39
I've been in the future for quit some time, just because I'm in the future does not mean I abandon the past. Your reseach is not twice as good...just more efficent. I'm actually doing a research paper now between arguing with you morons. I usually spend a little more time on my research than many of the youngsters I go to school with. Why, becuase I cross reference my information with **** other than the internet because there is just as much misinformation out there as there is good infornmation. My stupid old *** still read books on occasion. WTF does that have to do with this conversation?
#40
I love explaining this to the dallas supercharger crew. They have a hard time justifying $-per-peak-whp.
I remember years ago, before I really knew the minute details on tuning that I know today, "we" took Yojo's black GTI to Bryce and it made like 310whp at 12psi. We left at a lower MAP, 275whp, and the car felt like a rocket in comparison.
I also remember closing billy T's wastegate shut and blowing up the turbo on a 1000 mile car, lol. Ah yes, the glory days of "Kentech."
Bryce does something on the dyno where his cars are unreasonably fast for the #'s they make. (yojo's gti, jeremy's gti, dirty's 1st gen dsm, the blue evo)
I remember years ago, before I really knew the minute details on tuning that I know today, "we" took Yojo's black GTI to Bryce and it made like 310whp at 12psi. We left at a lower MAP, 275whp, and the car felt like a rocket in comparison.
I also remember closing billy T's wastegate shut and blowing up the turbo on a 1000 mile car, lol. Ah yes, the glory days of "Kentech."
Bryce does something on the dyno where his cars are unreasonably fast for the #'s they make. (yojo's gti, jeremy's gti, dirty's 1st gen dsm, the blue evo)
Wow, a whole 310 hp....