I will never deal with Good-Win-Racing again...
04-25-2014, 10:16 AM
#21
+1 on the FM2 clutch. Very easy pedal feel (no harder than stock from what I can remember the stock clutch felt like) and I have had no problem holding my 320wtq. Take your business elsewhere. Like it or not, a good business owner has to learn to bite their lip in difficult times. IMO, you don't cancel a customer's order unless they ask for it to be cancelled. He should have just said; "I am very sorry, but I can't give you any discount. If you are not happy, I can cancel your order if you want me to. Just let me know."
0
04-25-2014, 11:15 AM
#22
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Posts: 7,949
Total Cats: 1,003
^+1. I think the problem here is Brian's reaction. Should not cancel a customer order without a request to do so, and no need to be so snarky.
I am constantly bombarded by customers who are irritated about one delay or another. Sometimes we have to say no to their requests. Sometimes we can offer them a discount against other products due to a delay/thin profit margin on the product they're purchasing.
But just canceling an order, just like that? Jerk move.
I am constantly bombarded by customers who are irritated about one delay or another. Sometimes we have to say no to their requests. Sometimes we can offer them a discount against other products due to a delay/thin profit margin on the product they're purchasing.
But just canceling an order, just like that? Jerk move.
0
04-25-2014, 11:38 AM
#23
This. In my opinion it doesn't even matter what the product was, if it's a special one off, whatever. If it's supposed to ship in 10 days, it should be on the truck no later then the 11th day. And if it's not, the least you could expect is a polite email saying that there's a delay. Sure, whatever. He waited a year to get his and he might be a little bit bitter about that but that's not in any way your problem. It's a matter of professionalism and running a business.
Sounds like FM will be getting your business instead.
Sounds like FM will be getting your business instead.
0
04-25-2014, 11:41 AM
#24
Personally, I think him canceling an order like that is kind of a dick move. However, you smearing his name like that on the internet, when you really did not get hurt in any way is completely outrageous.
Business is tough sometimes. Things don't always turn out smelling like roses. Get over it.
Business is tough sometimes. Things don't always turn out smelling like roses. Get over it.
Last edited by miata2fast; 04-25-2014 at 12:49 PM.
0
04-25-2014, 11:46 AM
#25
Supporting Vendor
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,488
Total Cats: 43
It takes a lot for me to fire a customer and show them the door....since I dedicate every day to helping Miata customers pursue their dream of the perfect Miata. Many of you know I try to answer your emails 365 days per year, including on my birthday, every holiday, Christmas, New Years, etc. Most folks appreciate what we do, and the lengths we go to, but perhaps once every few years somebody wants to act like they own me if they are waiting on a product they knew up front was custom made to order and would take time. Every passionate business person has a limit. That limit got crossed, you folks are getting just a taste of Alan in his lashing out here, but after he repeatedly made it clear he could not patiently wait for the product to be built, I calmly informed him that his money was refunded. Alan's response was to promise lots of mud slinging revenge (which reveals more about him), my preference is to make as many customers happy that I can make happy....knowing I can't make everybody happy. If somebody doesn't want to wait, I am certainly not the type to hold their funds hostage.
The best stuff often takes time...and I prefer the product goes to somebody who appreciates it without riding me every day on production beyond my control. This clutch has been a god-send for many of my supercharged and turbo customers who have replacement hips or replacement knees, it has brought real joy to lots of customers. One of them is my wife, all of 115 pounds she was brought to tears after she destroyed two heavy pedal ACT clutch kits in our supercharged Miata because she could not operate the heavy pedal... and that strongly motivated making this Carbon/Carbon clutch happen. It would be SO MUCH EASIER to simply offer off-the-shelf stuff that brings me no grief for slow shipping times, it's always the cool custom stuff that takes the most time and dedication to keep bringing to customers....and it's worth even bearing this stuff you see here for those customers who do appreciate what we do.
The best stuff often takes time...and I prefer the product goes to somebody who appreciates it without riding me every day on production beyond my control. This clutch has been a god-send for many of my supercharged and turbo customers who have replacement hips or replacement knees, it has brought real joy to lots of customers. One of them is my wife, all of 115 pounds she was brought to tears after she destroyed two heavy pedal ACT clutch kits in our supercharged Miata because she could not operate the heavy pedal... and that strongly motivated making this Carbon/Carbon clutch happen. It would be SO MUCH EASIER to simply offer off-the-shelf stuff that brings me no grief for slow shipping times, it's always the cool custom stuff that takes the most time and dedication to keep bringing to customers....and it's worth even bearing this stuff you see here for those customers who do appreciate what we do.
6
04-25-2014, 11:48 AM
#26
I disagree, Miata2fast.
My singularly most important criteria for doing business with someone is 'communication'.
About 4 weeks ago, I took my head to a shop to get it looked over and everything brought up to snuff with it. They told me it'd be out in a couple days.
2 weeks later, I call them since I hadn't heard anything. "Oh, the machinist doing your head was sick, no worries, we'll get it out in a couple days."
A couple days pass, I hear nothing. I wait a week, call them again. "Oh, the machinist doing your head is behind, no worries, we'll have it out in a few days."
A week passes, and I call them up yesterday. I find out that not only has my head been given to an inexperienced machinist (when it was ONLY supposed to have been done by the machinist we agreed upon), but he apparently cracked it somehow in the R&R (I don't even know HOW you can crack a head doing that, but whatever.), and the head was out getting repaired.
Tell me, would you do business with them after hearing my story?
TL;DR: Communication matters. How a business handles itself in the bad situations is probably the most important part of running a business.
My singularly most important criteria for doing business with someone is 'communication'.
About 4 weeks ago, I took my head to a shop to get it looked over and everything brought up to snuff with it. They told me it'd be out in a couple days.
2 weeks later, I call them since I hadn't heard anything. "Oh, the machinist doing your head was sick, no worries, we'll get it out in a couple days."
A couple days pass, I hear nothing. I wait a week, call them again. "Oh, the machinist doing your head is behind, no worries, we'll have it out in a few days."
A week passes, and I call them up yesterday. I find out that not only has my head been given to an inexperienced machinist (when it was ONLY supposed to have been done by the machinist we agreed upon), but he apparently cracked it somehow in the R&R (I don't even know HOW you can crack a head doing that, but whatever.), and the head was out getting repaired.
Tell me, would you do business with them after hearing my story?
TL;DR: Communication matters. How a business handles itself in the bad situations is probably the most important part of running a business.
0
04-25-2014, 12:03 PM
#27
There is a big difference between a total debacle, and a delay in shipping.
OP is pissed because he was inconvenienced, so he decides that someone has to pay for it.
Edit: It is unfair to expect total communication on every little hiccup when dealing with high volume product with smaller margins of profit.
OP is pissed because he was inconvenienced, so he decides that someone has to pay for it.
Edit: It is unfair to expect total communication on every little hiccup when dealing with high volume product with smaller margins of profit.
0
04-25-2014, 12:08 PM
#28
Well, I ordered a set of those new 15x9 Advanti wheels from Brian yesterday. They shipped like 15 minutes after I put in the order, so . . . .
I must say, the delay OP encountered for custom, low-production, non-inventoried parts seems pretty inconsequential.
Looks like a personality clash here. It takes all kinds.
Peace! LOL.
I must say, the delay OP encountered for custom, low-production, non-inventoried parts seems pretty inconsequential.
Looks like a personality clash here. It takes all kinds.
Peace! LOL.
0
04-25-2014, 12:25 PM
#29
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,650
Total Cats: 3,010
I disagree, Miata2fast.
My singularly most important criteria for doing business with someone is 'communication'.
About 4 weeks ago, I took my head to a shop to get it looked over and everything brought up to snuff with it. They told me it'd be out in a couple days.
2 weeks later, I call them since I hadn't heard anything. "Oh, the machinist doing your head was sick, no worries, we'll get it out in a couple days."
A couple days pass, I hear nothing. I wait a week, call them again. "Oh, the machinist doing your head is behind, no worries, we'll have it out in a few days."
A week passes, and I call them up yesterday. I find out that not only has my head been given to an inexperienced machinist (when it was ONLY supposed to have been done by the machinist we agreed upon), but he apparently cracked it somehow in the R&R (I don't even know HOW you can crack a head doing that, but whatever.), and the head was out getting repaired.
Tell me, would you do business with them after hearing my story?
TL;DR: Communication matters. How a business handles itself in the bad situations is probably the most important part of running a business.
My singularly most important criteria for doing business with someone is 'communication'.
About 4 weeks ago, I took my head to a shop to get it looked over and everything brought up to snuff with it. They told me it'd be out in a couple days.
2 weeks later, I call them since I hadn't heard anything. "Oh, the machinist doing your head was sick, no worries, we'll get it out in a couple days."
A couple days pass, I hear nothing. I wait a week, call them again. "Oh, the machinist doing your head is behind, no worries, we'll have it out in a few days."
A week passes, and I call them up yesterday. I find out that not only has my head been given to an inexperienced machinist (when it was ONLY supposed to have been done by the machinist we agreed upon), but he apparently cracked it somehow in the R&R (I don't even know HOW you can crack a head doing that, but whatever.), and the head was out getting repaired.
Tell me, would you do business with them after hearing my story?
TL;DR: Communication matters. How a business handles itself in the bad situations is probably the most important part of running a business.
0
04-25-2014, 12:43 PM
#30
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 38
Total Cats: -12
I've never had any reason to doubt Brian. I'll give the benefit of the doubt there.
Like it or not, what you ordered is a custom built piece that is pretty pricey and has probably very little margin to start with. He probably hasn't sold many and may have had less trouble getting one in short order previously, during a less active time of the year. He may have even been frustrated with the supplier delay himself.
As a dealer for many products myself, I have been frustrated by customer complaints over delays and other issues completely out of my control on a daily basis. Sometimes people rub each other the wrong way. Sometimes a particular email isn't the problem, but the one or two immediately prior to it have already created a situation of abnormal stress. Everybody has bad days when the pressure is on and the people you rely upon are not delivering for you. Would I have handled it that way? Probably not, but I'm known for my patience. I probably wouldn't have handled it the way you did, either.
If given the choice between giving away 50% of the likely profit on an "in demand" component to someone who has rubbed you the wrong way and inventorying it for the next full price customer, I can see the allure of the latter.
Like it or not, what you ordered is a custom built piece that is pretty pricey and has probably very little margin to start with. He probably hasn't sold many and may have had less trouble getting one in short order previously, during a less active time of the year. He may have even been frustrated with the supplier delay himself.
As a dealer for many products myself, I have been frustrated by customer complaints over delays and other issues completely out of my control on a daily basis. Sometimes people rub each other the wrong way. Sometimes a particular email isn't the problem, but the one or two immediately prior to it have already created a situation of abnormal stress. Everybody has bad days when the pressure is on and the people you rely upon are not delivering for you. Would I have handled it that way? Probably not, but I'm known for my patience. I probably wouldn't have handled it the way you did, either.
If given the choice between giving away 50% of the likely profit on an "in demand" component to someone who has rubbed you the wrong way and inventorying it for the next full price customer, I can see the allure of the latter.
...but he did reopen the conversation. He sent me and email, and I thought that he was looking for me to appreciate his situation, and tried to get him to appreciate mine, and I asked for a little consideration. Politely.
That's when the order was canceled.
-2
04-25-2014, 12:46 PM
#32
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 38
Total Cats: -12
Then Brian added: "Poor me! My suppliers are so busy! He's building so many clutches for me to sell!".
"Then how about taking a little bit of that money your making to make my situation a little better"
"No clutch for you!".
:(
-2
04-25-2014, 12:50 PM
#34
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 38
Total Cats: -12
It takes a lot for me to fire a customer and show them the door....since I dedicate every day to helping Miata customers pursue their dream of the perfect Miata. Many of you know I try to answer your emails 365 days per year, including on my birthday, every holiday, Christmas, New Years, etc. Most folks appreciate what we do, and the lengths we go to, but perhaps once every few years somebody wants to act like they own me if they are waiting on a product they knew up front was custom made to order and would take time. Every passionate business person has a limit. That limit got crossed, you folks are getting just a taste of Alan in his lashing out here, but after he repeatedly made it clear he could not patiently wait for the product to be built, I calmly informed him that his money was refunded. Alan's response was to promise lots of mud slinging revenge (which reveals more about him), my preference is to make as many customers happy that I can make happy....knowing I can't make everybody happy. If somebody doesn't want to wait, I am certainly not the type to hold their funds hostage.
The best stuff often takes time...and I prefer the product goes to somebody who appreciates it without riding me every day on production beyond my control. This clutch has been a god-send for many of my supercharged and turbo customers who have replacement hips or replacement knees, it has brought real joy to lots of customers. One of them is my wife, all of 115 pounds she was brought to tears after she destroyed two heavy pedal ACT clutch kits in our supercharged Miata because she could not operate the heavy pedal... and that strongly motivated making this Carbon/Carbon clutch happen. It would be SO MUCH EASIER to simply offer off-the-shelf stuff that brings me no grief for slow shipping times, it's always the cool custom stuff that takes the most time and dedication to keep bringing to customers....and it's worth even bearing this stuff you see here for those customers who do appreciate what we do.
The best stuff often takes time...and I prefer the product goes to somebody who appreciates it without riding me every day on production beyond my control. This clutch has been a god-send for many of my supercharged and turbo customers who have replacement hips or replacement knees, it has brought real joy to lots of customers. One of them is my wife, all of 115 pounds she was brought to tears after she destroyed two heavy pedal ACT clutch kits in our supercharged Miata because she could not operate the heavy pedal... and that strongly motivated making this Carbon/Carbon clutch happen. It would be SO MUCH EASIER to simply offer off-the-shelf stuff that brings me no grief for slow shipping times, it's always the cool custom stuff that takes the most time and dedication to keep bringing to customers....and it's worth even bearing this stuff you see here for those customers who do appreciate what we do.
I'd had my say, you replied that it would be Friday and there was an end to it.
Did you need some absolution from me? Did I hurt your feelings by being disappointed that you never mentioned the delay in shipping until after you had my money?
What was the point? And why does simply ASKING for a small consideration (total $60 on a total order of more than $1000) warrant you cancelling my order?
-2
04-25-2014, 12:51 PM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 586
Total Cats: 112
Given the information in the first post is true and correct it was for sure a dick move on his part, won't be doing business with him, thanks for the heads up.
-2
04-25-2014, 12:51 PM
#36
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,650
Total Cats: 3,010
I help whomever I can help and have the luxury of not needing to deal with every customer who calls.
OP mentioned his lengthy conversations with Brian about the product and his application prior to purchase. As a professional sales person and former business manager, that costs money. It also costs productivity, as it takes time away from other tasks that are crucial to operating a profitable business. Most businesses that could offer really great custom services and parts don't do it because it is very time consuming. It is therefore much more troublesome and more difficult to realize a profit than simply remarketing an off the shelf product with zero support and internet only sales. It isn't Walmart and it isn't Burger King. You will get better knowledge and a better product with him than at those places, but you have to be patient and you have to pay more for it.
If you want custom and you want high-end products built by American craftsmen instead of children in China, it will cost the OP both time and money. In this case, I bet the OP cost Brian both, even if the transaction had been successful. Yes, even if the sale had gone through, I bet the OP was more costly than what he would have yielded Good-Win Racing. If Brian's time isn't worth at least $600 an hour to his company I'd be really surprised.
I have every intention of showing my good customers every ounce of attention and minute of time I can muster. I also know when someone who has taken entirely too much of my time already is costing me way more than they will ever spend. And I know I need to cut ties and return to those who both need my help, appreciate it, and make it profitable. I owe it to the owner of my company, my family, and myself.
OP mentioned his lengthy conversations with Brian about the product and his application prior to purchase. As a professional sales person and former business manager, that costs money. It also costs productivity, as it takes time away from other tasks that are crucial to operating a profitable business. Most businesses that could offer really great custom services and parts don't do it because it is very time consuming. It is therefore much more troublesome and more difficult to realize a profit than simply remarketing an off the shelf product with zero support and internet only sales. It isn't Walmart and it isn't Burger King. You will get better knowledge and a better product with him than at those places, but you have to be patient and you have to pay more for it.
If you want custom and you want high-end products built by American craftsmen instead of children in China, it will cost the OP both time and money. In this case, I bet the OP cost Brian both, even if the transaction had been successful. Yes, even if the sale had gone through, I bet the OP was more costly than what he would have yielded Good-Win Racing. If Brian's time isn't worth at least $600 an hour to his company I'd be really surprised.
I have every intention of showing my good customers every ounce of attention and minute of time I can muster. I also know when someone who has taken entirely too much of my time already is costing me way more than they will ever spend. And I know I need to cut ties and return to those who both need my help, appreciate it, and make it profitable. I owe it to the owner of my company, my family, and myself.
1
04-25-2014, 12:56 PM
#37
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,650
Total Cats: 3,010
It is interesting that a guy with only 10 posts since 2011 chooses to come in here and start posting a bunch of garbage about a well known and well respected paying vendor on our site who no one here has had any real problems with before.
I've heard it said "If all of your marriages end in divorce, it probably isn't the other people that have the problem."
I've heard it said "If all of your marriages end in divorce, it probably isn't the other people that have the problem."
1
04-25-2014, 01:03 PM
#39
He posted the same thing over at m.net at the same time. They pruned the thread and then shut it down pretty quick.
0
