miataturbo.net-like debauchery thread (about the ND or something) - Page 126 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-18-2016, 03:57 PM   #2501
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,536
Total Cats: 840
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
^yup.

I have a 45k mile '04 AP2 that I love. I prefer the styling of the AP2, and I like the seats better. But I agree in every other way (though I've ordered the club model so no heated seats... but also no leather, which is a BIG plus).

I ordered an ND and it should arrive mid-July, but I am not committed to buying the car (no deposit, and the general sales manager here is fine with me leaving it for stock if I decide not to get it).

That torque of the ND though... Also way too much body roll. That'll have to change.

I think I just really need to experience one that's been properly toyed with. Perhaps I can come ride in yours mid-June, Emilio, since I don't think GWR's has the higher rev limit?
With our Sport spring package on the Xidas, 1.125 x.088 front bar and solid 14mm rear the car is fantastic. Supple on any surface, yards of travel yet completely composed on a bumpy track with gumball tires. I don't know what Goodwin has done to theirs but ours is set at 7100, OFH and tune for around 170whp on pump gas.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 04:04 PM   #2502
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,138
Total Cats: 28
Default

Once Mazda finally unveils the '17 model year changes and if one of those changes is a Winning Blue or Dynamic Blue, then I will sell my 01, 06, and my 15k pile of parts to get one. I really like the Abarth styling and exhaust note, but the weight gain to NCish levels, while still being the same interior size, turns me off.
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 05:49 PM   #2503
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,985
Total Cats: 409
Default

Yeah, for headers would be curious to see the difference between the OFH and its 4-1 design, vs. GWR's 4-2-1 design. GWR posted before/after dyno plots, but OF has just an 'after' plot which is kinda useless .

I just need to chill. ha. Hopefully I can swing it so I can keep them both for a while, that'll make the decision easier (rather than having to sell the S2k to make the down pmnt on the ND).
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 06:05 PM   #2504
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,011
Total Cats: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
With our Sport spring package on the Xidas, 1.125 x.088 front bar and solid 14mm rear the car is fantastic. Supple on any surface, yards of travel yet completely composed on a bumpy track with gumball tires. I don't know what Goodwin has done to theirs but ours is set at 7100, OFH and tune for around 170whp on pump gas.
Is there enough headroom in the stock fuel system for E85 at that point? I know Shiv is working on a Bluetooth compatible flex fuel module on the BRZ, which I'm sure he will also do for the ND if the headroom is there. If there is I can see 185whp being a legitimate goal and that would be an insane amount of fun in that car.

Seeing XIDAs for ND really makes me consider sending back the track parts I just ordered for the BRZ (raditator/oil cooler/RBF 660 G Loc pads). Mike Kang over at CSG has basically told me if I want to replicate the quality/setup/valving of the BKG for an NA/NB, I'm basically going to need to step up to JRZ RS1 for the BRZ. $4400 on coilovers for a Dual Duty car is hard to swallow.
z31maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 07:25 PM   #2505
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 5,808
Total Cats: 554
Default

Man, can't wait to rejoin Club Orange once I get my '18.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 07:31 PM   #2506
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,568
Total Cats: 227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
How does the car feel in that last 600 rpm (6500-7100)? OEM it seems to taper off pretty significantly above 6k. I don't need mad VTEC rush but a power curve that trends upwards at least through 6500 RPM would be good.
How about 180 whp / 179 ft-lbs?

This is our long tube header which just got the green light for production. Hand made merge sections, max length primaries into secondaries, careful calculation and testing of each and every piece to get flow and scavenge perfected.



No, it's not going to be cheap. We already have what we think is the best "shorty" for performance, ease of install, competetive price point, etc. This one is all about making the best damn header for the ND period.
ThePass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 07:43 PM   #2507
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,985
Total Cats: 409
Default

turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 07:44 PM   #2508
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,536
Total Cats: 840
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Yeah, for headers would be curious to see the difference between the OFH and its 4-1 design, vs. GWR's 4-2-1 design. GWR posted before/after dyno plots, but OF has just an 'after' plot which is kinda useless .

I just need to chill. ha. Hopefully I can swing it so I can keep them both for a while, that'll make the decision easier (rather than having to sell the S2k to make the down pmnt on the ND).
Not trying to stir the pot but OFH dyno is a Dynojet. Most recent are SAE corrected after I bugged him about it. The other plot is another brand of dyno and has no relevant baseline. I for one, would like to see a direct comparison to an SAE corrected Dynojet run.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 07:48 PM   #2509
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,985
Total Cats: 409
Default

GWR posted a dyno that shows before/after plots on the same dyno (different days of course) to clearly show the gains. We all know that comparing numbers between one dyno to another needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but we can compare gains relatively accurately, no?

Also not trying to stir the pot, just trying to interpret everything I'm seeing in my research. Am I incorrect?
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 07:56 PM   #2510
Supporting Vendor
 
Good-Win Racing LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 513
Total Cats: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Not trying to stir the pot but OFH dyno is a Dynojet. Most recent are SAE corrected after I bugged him about it. The other plot is another brand of dyno and has no relevant baseline. I for one, would like to see a direct comparison to an SAE corrected Dynojet run.
Years ago I ran down the street with our first Supercharged NC to the Dynojet and did higher numbers than on this Dyno Dynamics unit, repeated that process several times in early development of the MP62 kit that we still sell on our site now for NC. Either way, before and after same car, same dyno, up full 40hp with this header and nothing else comes close (Mazda's own global cup car 4-1 long tube less gains on this same car, on this same dyno). Sadly that local dynojet on which I did those apples to apples runs years ago here has closed, so I don't have a local trusted dynojet to jump on now or I would. I pulled the graph for now, will post version that shows everything, including relevant position of the Mazda global cup car 4-1, and our shorty header, and stock (I have a ton of data on this dyno). Will get that posted as soon as I can.

Last edited by Good-Win Racing LLC; 05-18-2016 at 08:20 PM.
Good-Win Racing LLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 07:59 PM   #2511
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,568
Total Cats: 227
Default

There are many factors of course, as we're all very well aware here, this isn't M.net

There have been enough cases of back to back and even same-day dyno testing on the dyno we use here and then on a Dynojet to know how similar they read. Our baseline stock dynos of the ND are within 1 or 2 hp of the same readings as many others are seeing on Dynojets as far as I can recall. That's all besides the point for the most part though because we do every test on the same dyno every time and the before/after is the proof in the pudding as they say.
ThePass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 08:00 PM   #2512
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,985
Total Cats: 409
Default



This is the one I was looking at for the max power header. I haven't seen something that shows the gains (not paying attention to the actual figures, but simply the difference between the two plots) from OFH. It may be out there, but it isn't on the product page and haven't dug a whole ton deeper than that aside from reading the thread on Miata.net.
Attached Thumbnails
miataturbo.net-like debauchery thread (about the ND or something)-80-nd_power_30450d04c1c2613b0c963743755b67db33ae00a0.jpg  
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 08:05 PM   #2513
Supporting Vendor
 
Good-Win Racing LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 513
Total Cats: 17
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post


This is the one I was looking at for the max power header. I haven't seen something that shows the gains (not paying attention to the actual figures, but simply the difference between the two plots) from OFH. It may be out there, but it isn't on the product page and haven't dug a whole ton deeper than that aside from reading the thread on Miata.net.
Yep, that is results on our SHORTY 4-2-1, compare torque gains to anything....and our long tube 4-2-1 does even better.
Good-Win Racing LLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 09:23 PM   #2514
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,985
Total Cats: 409
Default

Looking forward to more results on the long tube.

Emilio, it looked like you were saying the OFH header and tune with the rest of the stock exhaust would provide serious gains (170 whp) is that correct? Or were those figures figuring to replace the entire exhaust?

turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 09:44 PM   #2515
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,536
Total Cats: 840
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Looking forward to more results on the long tube.

Emilio, it looked like you were saying the OFH header and tune with the rest of the stock exhaust would provide serious gains (170 whp) is that correct? Or were those figures figuring to replace the entire exhaust?
OFH data is all published on thier site and m.net, as is GWR. The question I have is how the two dynos compare. Still not clear on that. Safe bet that the GWR longtube will outperform anything else currently available.
My best guess is that the GWR dyno reads a bit low. We see around 140whp with a stock CA car on two different SAE corrected Dynojets and GWR reported 135whp on the same dyno they have used for over a decade. The only other Dyno Dynamics I have had any time on was the one at Kraftwerks and it was a heart breaker.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2016, 03:27 AM   #2516
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,985
Total Cats: 409
Default

Thanks for the thoughts, as always.

Am I incorrect to say that if OF did before/after dyno tests on their dyno, wouldn't the gains be directly comparable to GWR's? Whether they read a few lower or higher is irrelevant, no? If one shows 30 lb ft gain and the other shows 25, does it matter what the net numbers are?

I do agree on the GWR dyno reading low... seems most NDs are dynoing around 140 whp stock as you said.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2016, 11:38 AM   #2517
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,138
Total Cats: 28
Default

So who is doing GWR's tuning? Shiv is obviously doing the OFH stuff.

If the '17's get a nice blue color option and I can add Recaros, I will sell everything I own to get one. If not, then I will stick with my Winning Blue 06 and put a 2.5 in it :/
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2016, 12:55 PM   #2518
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,985
Total Cats: 409
Default

You could always wrap it.

Orange virus is doing GWRs tuning.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2016, 03:42 PM   #2519
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 899
Total Cats: 57
Default

Looks like Tommy R. of STR fame has a Mazda rep citing that autotossers are covered if their transmission breaks.

I eagerly await 10 pages of posts claiming that he's lying on mnet.
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2016, 04:20 PM   #2520
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,138
Total Cats: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
You could always wrap it.

Orange virus is doing GWRs tuning.
I want to spend 3k on making the ND faster, not just putting vinyl with a 5 year life on the exterior. Mazda is trying to sell a sports car with **** colors. I get your point, though.

Isn't Orange Virus the guy 949 was using at first, but they had problems and decided to tune it themselves?
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:54 PM.