miataturbo.net-like debauchery thread (about the ND or something) - Page 128 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-21-2016, 02:57 PM   #2541
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Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
I want to spend 3k on making the ND faster, not just putting vinyl with a 5 year life on the exterior. Mazda is trying to sell a sports car with **** colors. I get your point, though.

Isn't Orange Virus the guy 949 was using at first, but they had problems and decided to tune it themselves?
This is correct. We had a few issues that were spotted when doing track testing, the tune was developed on very early version software / mapping (very shortly after tune release) on Full E85, the first ever. We found the cause, which ended up being the EGT controls going haywire from excess cylinder temps with E85 + aggressive timing + the long tube catless header. The issue was discovered at a later time doing tuning / testing with another company. We have since resolved this problem, I even offered to fix it for 949 and or do another no charge, but they ended up going their own route, or maybe they didn't get my mail, I am not sure.

It was a combo of very early version tuning, full E85, and uncontrolled EGT calculations for maps we at the time were still developing. We have had no problems since.
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Old 05-21-2016, 03:01 PM   #2542
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Nice! Thanks for the update.

Are you mainly based in Colorado or Las Vegas? I remember following your threads closely at m.net when the ND first came out and you were always in Las Vegas tuning stuff, but also many mentions of you being in Colorado?
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Old 05-21-2016, 04:54 PM   #2543
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I spoke with the marketing dept about the colors. It was clear they wanted to go up market so they went with conservative, classy colors. Lexus stuff basically. Clearly they misjudged just how many of their potential customers were fans of the NA and NB wand wanted brighter, more fun colors. I think the response we have had to our brightly vinyled car had some impact with them. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one more brighter, more primary color option for '17. A basic Mariner-ish blue or simple red would sell well I'd think.

Last edited by emilio700; 05-21-2016 at 06:25 PM. Reason: speling
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Old 05-21-2016, 05:00 PM   #2544
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If they offer Recaros and a better blue on the '17's, I am totally sold.
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Old 05-21-2016, 05:20 PM   #2545
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Clearly they misjudged just how many of their potential customers were fans of the NA and NB wand wanted brighter, more fun colors.

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Old 05-21-2016, 06:23 PM   #2546
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I completely get it. It feels like a Cadillac version of a Miata. It does feel bigger and chunkier, but the engine is incredibly more enjoyable on the street and it just seems like a better DD to me. I have had 3 NB's and 2 NC's now, so I have had the full spectrum, but the NC's are the best on the street to me.
This is why we turbo! Once I add a few creature comforts to my NA, I will have zero complaints with it as my DD. I do need to drive an NC and ND to compare, but I will speculate for now.
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:42 PM   #2547
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^ Agree. I'm really enjoying DD the Silver '90. I take my daughter's '15 PRHT to work sometimes and I've test driven the ND. But like Joe said, that early NA just fits so well and with the torquey turbo motor and AC, it doesn't lack anything. It's also at 225K+ and drives like new -- I don't worry about putting miles on it. Only fear is that even a minor fender-bender would total it -- but I guess I would just buy it back.

These power graphs of the hopped-up ND sure are intriguing though.
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Old 05-22-2016, 02:56 PM   #2548
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Back to the dyno yesterday with the ND long tubes, hit 180 whp over and over. Graph compares with our best run of the stock car ever at 139 whp. This isn't a peaky race-only curve, the gains start practically off idle and continue over the whole range. 40 whp and 40 ft-lbs of torque gained, and you can see at some spots along the torque curve it's actually more than 40.



The accompanying midpipe for this header has the largest resonator that we could stuff in there ahead of the rear axle. The goal behind this was to attenuate as much volume as possible at that point so that racers could use our lightweight Super Street or Race mufflers out back to reduce weight out over the rear wheels while still passing sounds regs at events. The result turned out even better than we had hoped; the combination of the long tubes (which inherently has more total pipe length than a shorty) and the big resonator makes for a combo that is perfectly drive-able with our minimalist muffler options even for street use. Or, you can put the Super Q muffler on the back and it's nearly stock sound level.

Here's our 4-2-1 longtube (blue) vs. Global Cup Car 4-1 longtube (orange). It kills the GCC header from start to finish and the big ugly torque dip is non-existant:

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Old 05-22-2016, 04:05 PM   #2549
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Old 05-22-2016, 04:30 PM   #2550
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Oh hell yes. Hope this exhaust is on one of the shop cars when I come for a ride next month
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:57 AM   #2551
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Mazda CMU Hacks - ND Supported

Very cool
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:05 PM   #2552
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Those gains are nuts.
Seriously, I don't think I've seen gains like that on a n/a 4 banger since the Honda K
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:53 PM   #2553
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I just never liked the feel of the NC. I don't mean the road manner or the feel of how it handles, I mean the feel of sitting in the car and driving it.
I just think it's ugly. I'm actually not a big fan of the ND styling either. I mean, it's better than the NC, but still not great.

--Ian
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:51 PM   #2554
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This damn thread makes havoc with my lingering plan for a 2.5NC. A ND would cost 2.5times more, but would probably feel better, etc...

I'm too afraid to testdrive, it might drain the funds for the new roof for the house...
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:11 PM   #2555
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Those gains are nuts.
Seriously, I don't think I've seen gains like that on a n/a 4 banger since the Honda K
Nuts is right. I understand that OEM parts are designed with a whole host of competing priorities besides maximum performance -- cost of manufacturing, ease of assembly, compatibility with other cars in the current or future lineup, emissions, noise, etc. Even considering all that, it seems like an awful lot was left on the table.
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:19 PM   #2556
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Nuts is right. I understand that OEM parts are designed with a whole host of competing priorities besides maximum performance -- cost of manufacturing, ease of assembly, compatibility with other cars in the current or future lineup, emissions, noise, etc. Even considering all that, it seems like an awful lot was left on the table.
Yeah, makes one wonder. Was it just rushing the 2.0? Is there a conspiracy to add excitement with a Mazdaspeed model in 2-5 years time? It was really obvious there was plenty of HP to be had high up in the rev range from the original published curves. But 40ft-lbs across-the-board?!? Nuts!!

Really makes the Fiat offer unappealing.
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:22 PM   #2557
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Yeah, makes one wonder. Was it just rushing the 2.0? Is there a conspiracy to add excitement with a Mazdaspeed model in 2-5 years time? It was really obvious there was plenty of HP to be had high up in the rev range from the original published curves. But 40ft-lbs across-the-board?!? Nuts!!

Really makes the Fiat offer unappealing.
Mazda knew the transmissions could not handle the power so they detuned the motor.

/Conspiracy
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:23 PM   #2558
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Mazda knew the transmissions could not handle the power so they detuned the motor.

/Conspiracy
I feel like this is a real thing. Companies detune cars all the time because parts can't handle the power. Otherwise every turbo car would be running 30lbs of boost and breaking every other day.
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:39 PM   #2559
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Time to start working on a(nother) transmission solution.

Edit: *Tranny" solution
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:58 PM   #2560
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This damn thread makes havoc with my lingering plan for a 2.5NC. A ND would cost 2.5times more, but would probably feel better, etc...

I'm too afraid to testdrive, it might drain the funds for the new roof for the house...
I feel you. I have an NC in registration purgatory right now and it is pissing me off enough that I might just sell everything I own to get an ND and throw Goodwins catalog at it...
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